Episode #74: Pride Before The Fall
This week, we continue our Patterns in Potter series, beginning our examination of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. In this episode, we discuss the main theme for Book 4, pride, and how Harry’s experiences in the beginning of Book 4 relate to this theme. Pride, both personal and external, comes before a fall, and there’s no bigger fall for the wizarding world than what happens at the end of Book 4. So, humble yourself, pull up a chair, and listen in.
As always we look forward to hearing from you. You can leave comments here on the blog or send in your voicemails to 206-337-0357 in the US or 07092899490 in the UK. Please make sure to keep the message as close to one minute as possible and try to speak loudly and clearly.
As always, feel free to rate and review us on iTunes and vote for us on Podcast Alley (new month next week!!)- remember, WE ARE THE NUMBER 3 HARRY POTTER PODCAST!!!
In the news:
- JK Rowling will be in New York next month to appear as a witness in the lawsuit against RDR Publishers.
- Reacting to some of Steve Vander Ark’s comments concerning the RDR/JKR lawsuit, The Leaky Cauldron has decided to sever ties with Vander Ark. In a related announcement, HPProgs is offering an open invitation to Steve Vander Ark to talk to us (we are shameless, we know).
- JK Rowling has gone into more detail about the depression she suffered in her younger years.
- Nickelodeon Magazine is offering a chance for one lucky kid (ours, sorry everyone) to win a trip to the LA Premiere of HBP.
You can listen to the podcast using the player below, or download it directly as an mp3.
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Tags: Harry Potter, nationalism, Patterns in Potter, pride, quidditch, racism, sports
March 27th, 2008 at 10:07 am
are we going back to the thursday ruteen
March 27th, 2008 at 10:16 am
This is Penny but honestly I don’t know, Austin. We are going against every advice we have ever given anyone that consistency and reliability is important when podcasting…Life has just got in the way too much lately for us to have a “routine”.
March 27th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Please paraphase Aarons comments so I actually know what in Dobbys name he is talking about..
March 27th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
thats alright
March 27th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
i’m just glad the podcast is still going
March 27th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
where is the download link?
March 27th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Going pretty good too. Greg did an absolutely excellent job in connecting pride as a theme for this book. At first I was like what? Then he tied it together perfectly. I have read some of his blogs from way back and have been comparing them to this current project. A lot of ideas are very different now or at least modified from the original thought. Given that I think Greg began expressing these ideas on themes and patterns in like 2002 before we had any clue to the outcome of the series, it is only prudent that some would change and take a more informed approach to a pattern \ theme analysis.
The fresh thoughts and ideas are what is keeping my intrest and speaks volumes about how this podcast fills a void for those of us that look for more than some giddy mindless entertainment. I am already thinking /prognosticating about how the rest of the patterns in potter series will pan out. Very ingenious approach Greg and one that execises the mind. Thanks too Penny who’s quick wit and ability to pull it together keep it fun.
Now that is proper sycophantatical commenting but heartfelt none the less. Take that to whomever said you were boring. Don’t you think after listening to 20 episodes you may have just overdone a good thing?
March 27th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
We did not find results for: sycophantatical. Try the suggestions below or type a new query above.
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Umm.. I had to look it up before Greg did
March 27th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.???
March 27th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Great show today!
At first, I really wasn’t buying the theme of pride for Book Four because I was in agreement with what Penny said about why Harry didn’t tell anybody about his scar. I thought that you were trying to fit pride into the story, rather than extracting it from all the major examples (i usually differentiate the two by asking myself “did the author do this intentionally?”).
But then, when you began discussing competition, I thought that that seemed to play a more crucial role in the book as a whole. In an even broader context, the idea of equality versus inferiority and superiority, which relates to competition and pride, seems to be woven into the story as well.
Some examples:
Competition- Harry asking Cho to the dance but being beaten to it by Cedric, Ron feeling competitive with Krum for Hermione, and Krum feeling threatened by Harry for Hermione, obviously the Tri-Wizard Tournament and Quidditch.
In/Equality- Treatment of house elves, SPEW, and enslavement in general, “Support Cedric Diggory” badges, discrimination against Hagrid, Ron’s insecurities about money, as well as Fred and George’s plans to make money, introduction to goblins relations.
Just a few thoughts! Can’t wait for more next week.
March 27th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Wow those are some good examples. Kira, you should call in or send in an mp3.
Competition- Harry asking Cho to the dance but being beaten to it by Cedric, I thought that that was a forshadowing to the outcome of the tri wizard tourniment but Cedrick died and I so did not see that coming.
March 27th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
I’m glad y’all liked it.
Kira: good examples! As a kid I was way too scared to ask girls out, mostly because I was too proud to face the reality that they would say no.
It’s intereseting to think about how competition and male chest-pounding, which does play a big role in this book, and is very age-appropriate, fits into the theme.
March 28th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Hey I have an off subject question. I have heard comparisons of the Harry Potter series( a compare and contrast if you will) with other books and movies. Examples include Lord of the rings and StarWars just on this podcast. I remember a story titled Rik Tiki Tavi, about mongoose kept as a family pet which protects a family from some nasty cobras. Forgive my spelling but I believed they were named Nagini and Nagera. Does a snake named Nagini ring a bell with anyone or is this just my illusion?
March 28th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I love the show, as for the #3 podcast you are #1 in my heart! But the Yankees rock and, for the red socks they are going down haha : )
March 28th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
the rankings for the ‘potter podcasts’ in my view are a little off… while i subscribe to yours, mugglecast and pottercast, i think that hp progs is way better than mugglecast. their show is just way too flashy and full of themselves. i love the simplicity of your show, the length is always good, and you don’t have tons of different people coming in and out of the show to keep track of.
i would have voted for you guys this month, but i think i voted for ‘keith and the girl’ earlier, just to try and push out mugglecast.
keep up the good work!
dirk~
March 29th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Another great show, I voted for you on podcast alley so hopefully you will keep moving up the ranks. Penny did you have a slight cough at the start of the show or did I hear the words ‘thank you book’! Keep up the good work, I might be going to Level Two 2009 and coming over to America, anyone else?
March 29th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
I loved this episode! I have to agree with Dirk on the ratings. I also listen to pottercast, and progs better. The theme of pride was great.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Aaron, you have a really good memory! You are very close to being right. The two black hooded cobras in the short story Rikki-Tikki-Tavi by Rudyard Kipling were named Nag and Nagaina. Some folks might also remember the story from the animated cartoon that came out in the 70s and has recently (2005) been released on DVD. We have a copy at my pubic library. I am sure Rowling must have read Kipling when she was little.
I wanted to chime in about how I love this podcast precisely because it is a straightforward discussion about the books. I do like PotterCast and Mugglecast but it is so refreshing to have a show like HP Progs where you get right down to debate without any glitz. I have yet to find any of any of your episodes boring! I do wish, though, that Penny would be given more air time to share her excellent opinions. If Greg doesn’t want to cut down his time you could just make the show a little longer.
By the way, Greg, the listeners DO care that you keep interrupting Penny during the news. I know you think it is funny but it tends to make you look like a rude, attention-seeking twit which I am sure is not really the case. Besides that, it is also very annoying to listeners who might actually be interested in the news. So please do us all a favor, and wait until she has finished before you give your comments.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Thanks for the kind words about the ratings. but you all know that I *do* listen to mugglecast (Pottercast just never did anything for me, but I am sure it is great.). There is a reason that they are number 1. I like mocking our number 3 status.
March 30th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I agree with Janet on Greg’s interruptions. They are annoying! Besides, why would you want to interrupt the news when Penny reads it so well?
March 30th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
My goodness we have come full circle.
March 31st, 2008 at 1:54 am
WADR Harry Potter “news” would be pretty dull without Greg
March 31st, 2008 at 1:57 am
as for a comment with some substance-
if you want to see a hands down incontrovertable support for Greg’s thesis there is a paragraph in DH (US – 679 , UK – 545) which pretty much sums up the themes of book 1-4 in two paragraphs
March 31st, 2008 at 6:11 am
Shimon: WADR?!? what does that mean?
And I look forward to checking out your proof.
BTW, Janet- I appreciate your sticking up for me, but I have to be honest on one count, with the Patterns in Potter I (sadly) have not done the research I should have before the episodes; therefore, it wasn’t a case of Greg not letting me speak, most likely it was a case of me having nothing to say. But I did re-read a good part of GoF over the weekend so I should have PLENTY of material for the next episode! In any event, I don’t think you have commented here before (or if you did, it hasn’t been for a while), so welcome!!! and please stick around and offer your insights.
March 31st, 2008 at 6:43 am
Shimon, I am not saying Greg shouldn’t make any comments, only that he doesn’t have to keep interrupting Penny to do so. Of course what makes the news interesting is when Greg and Penny have a nice heated discussion about it afterwards, but I think Greg can manage to do that without being rude at the same time.
Penny, that was the first time I have ever left a message even though I have been listening for a long time. I have been enjoying the Patterns in Potter theme very much.
March 31st, 2008 at 6:58 am
Penny -
With All Due Respect = WADR
also, I hope I got the page # right (I looked it up last night)….
Janet- I don’t thing he is trying to be rude it’s mosly just the kid inside
March 31st, 2008 at 8:11 am
Shimon, I do think you are right about that. That is why I said in my original email that it is just starting to make him “look” rude, while I am sure that is not really the case.
March 31st, 2008 at 10:54 am
Wow, I have to brush up on my internet lingo. I am still up to AFAIK and IMHO.
March 31st, 2008 at 11:05 am
LOL. ROTFL.
Janet said: “it tends to make you look like a rude, attention-seeking twit which I am sure is not really the case.”
Nope, that’s pretty much spot on.
March 31st, 2008 at 11:08 am
Shimon: found that quote, excellent! I recall thinking the same when I read it the first time around. We’ll have to mention it on the next podcast.
March 31st, 2008 at 11:11 am
When I was in first grade, someone came to our school and did a sort of puppet show using an overhead projector of Riki Tiki Tavi. There is one part where someone gets killed and blood filled up the screen (I think they managed this by placing a clear pan of red-colored liquid on the projector). This freaked me out and I had nightmares for weeks.
March 31st, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Why would they want to do that to first graders?
March 31st, 2008 at 8:30 pm
That’s strange my wife said it scared her as a child. Riki Tiki (not Greg) That does sound like a Stephen King effect though. Something right out of the Shining.
March 31st, 2008 at 8:33 pm
I watched the whole cartoon on you tube. Gotta love Orsen Wells. I think that narrator Penny has the crush on should do a remake.
April 1st, 2008 at 8:26 am
ok everyone it is now officially time to back up your declarations of loyalty and vote on podcast alley
April 1st, 2008 at 11:43 am
Thanks Shimon. Also there appears to be some confusion about voting. You can vote for more than one podcast, just not the same podcast twice (from the same IP and/or e-mail address).
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:23 am
Any word from Steve Vander Ark yet on appearing on your podcast? I’d love to see that. I’m not sure I’m totally on his side in this Lexicon lawsuit matter but then neither am I totally on Rowling/WB’s side either. I just think it would be best to hear more on the matter from all sides. Far too many times all we get is finely minced announcements & legalese from lawyers. So, the more openness the better I say.
I also thought your previous podcast was most prescient of the information that came out about JKR’s depression. Great job of discussing POA. And good job on this podcast, too.
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Yeah, that would be cool if Steve Vander Ark came on. I don’t know what side I’m on either. On one side I really think Jo’s rights should be up held, and on the other side, I think the lexicon would be an amazing resource.
April 4th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
I love your podcast, especially talking about the themes in the books lately. I like the intellectual discussions and the themes. You are both funny together – and I like hearing also about your lives. I will actually be starting to watch “the Wire” soon (its on my Netflix) – I enjoyed “The Shield” and also enjoy police dramas, so I’m looking forward to it. I am also a Mac lover.
Some comments in general – sometimes I can’t always hear the voice mails (maybe it happens to be my download or something). Sometimes it is hard to understand what the callers are saying- the caller on todays show was a little hard to understand. Could you summarize what people say in their comments since they can be hard to hear before you comment on their comments?
I have been meaning to comment on your opinions on the Steve Vander Ark / RDR lawsuit for awhile. To me, this is a very open and shut case, and I agree with Leaky’s position on this (and people unconnected to the case, but HP fans – I manage the Harry Potter Meetup Group in Seattle – agree with me on this, even though they might not be fans of Leaky and / or Pottercast). Publishing the book, a copy of the website, is a clear violation of copyright law. The Lexicon is fantastic because it catalogs all the information from the books and puts it in an easy to find form. But really, there isn’t much commentary there. It IS making a profit off of something that someone has written. The Lexicon website may get some advertising revenue, but that is not the same thing as *publishing* a book for profit. I do not think this lawsuit will hurt the fansites / wizard rock or anything at all (what SVA said). There is a difference between cataloging information / sorting it like the Lexicon does, to our benefit, and commenting on it / looking at themes. The latter is something that you do well, and you and other sites have nothing to fear from this lawsuit. Anyway, I’ve been wanting to say this for awhile – I really don’t think a website is the same as publishing a book.
Anyway, keep up the great work with your podcast!
April 5th, 2008 at 7:47 am
Renee,
You’re probably right in that this lawsuit, if WB/Rowling wins it, won’t hurt fansites. But in the legal mind, there’s a small jump from the Lexicon trying to make a profit on something like a copy of its website & websites making revenue off a work as well. Leaky makes a small revenue from advertising, but they ONLY make that revenue because of JKR’s work. They are profiting, in whatever small way, off of what she has produced. Now, they may be doing news & commentary, but they also have screen shots & what not on there.
Despite what JKR may think is allowable, there’s always the chance her lawyers or WB’s lawyers or Bloomsbury’s lawyers will think different. Media companies are continually pushing the boundaries of copyright law. Just look at the MPAA & the RIAA, which are basically claiming that they still own any music or movies you’ve bought from them.
I listened to the Pottercast where they discussed this & yes, all they say could be true, that if WB/Rowling win this suit, it won’t be open season on fan sites. But that’s discounting human nature. And whether or not you or I personally may think a website is different than publishing a book, that’s not to say there’s some lawyer or judge or jury out there who thinks different & has the legal authority to make their decision stick.
That being said, I don’t quite agree with SVA either. I think the publication of the Lexicon as basically just a screen shot off the Internet is laziness. It would’ve been so easy to add commentary or other features to this work, that would have clearly made it viable under current law.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:14 am
So I found this podcast completely by chance, and only listened on a whim, but it’s great! Your dialogue is great.
Keep up the good work!
April 7th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Lindsay- Welcome! Stick around, we have a great time here.