Episode #63: Harry Potter and the End of Innocence
There comes a time in a person’s life when they realize, for the first time, that the world is not actually the way they thought it was. That the picture they had in their mind about how the world works, the rules of the game, are suddenly gone. It is the end of innocence. When does this end of innocence occur for Harry, and for the series? In this week’s show, we discuss when Harry Potter first comes face to face with a picture of the wizarding world that is not what he thought he knew.
In the news:
- Amazon.com bought “The Tales of Beedle the Bard”. Awesome reviews on their website .
- As mentioned before on HP Progs, JK Rowling came in 3rd for Time’s Person of the Year. Better luck next time you finish writing the world’s most popular book series that turned a generation back on to reading and inspired millions of people, Jo.
- JK Rowling gave her Fan Site Award to the Harry Potter Alliance. Next year, HP Progs (assuming that Greg ever writes his thank-you letter).
- New actors announced for minor roles in HBP movie. Phew. I haven’t been sleeping at night wondering about who would play Marcus Belby.
- Stephen Colbert bested JK Rowling in the AP’s “Celebrity of the Year” . As a member of “Colbert Nation”, I am happy for Stephen but think this is ridiculous.
- JK Rowling types REALLY fast. You can see a video of her finishing Deathly Hallows. Thanks, ITV.
We are happy to announce that we will be attending Portus 2008, the Harry Potter symposium which will be held in Dallas, TX from July 10-13, 2008. We will also be taking part in the Portus Podcast Palooza while we are there. You may remember what a fantastic time we had at Prophecy 2007- we hope you can join us this year!!
You can listen to the podcast with the player below, or download it directly as an mp3.
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Tags: Books, Deathly Hallows, goblet of fire, Half Blood Prince, Harry Potter, literature, Order of the Phoenix, philosophy, religion
December 27th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
A very excellent topic indeed. I kinda like the karma of this episode as everything even some of which seemed insignificant was tied together. I was not successful in trying to analyze your points but by just listening with an open minded innocence was able to follow along and come up with my own thoughts. First of all in 10 years Greg and Penny will be my age. I wonder how their outlook of this subject may change by then? My point is that the loss of innocense being described here in was more of a description of growing up and growing older. My take on Hedwigs death was that it was the graphic symbolism of Harry’s departure from childhood. He was coming of age and the owl was killed. I am still not certain what innocense we are speaking of? Childhood trust and outlook? An innocence of the wizarding world in general somewhat similar to how we americans lost ours in major political events such as the McCarthy trials, the Kennedy assassination, Vietnam, Watergate, extc leading up to 9-11-01 and the present. Is it a loss of innocence or a natural growing process in which we are left to make a decision to become wise and happy with love in our life or vai and bitter with only material objects as a temporary fix to justify hatred and lonelyness? I have always heard the saying, What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger” Sometimes very litterally but maybe what is talked about here is not as much as a loss of innocence as much as a growth of the soul. Outside envirornmental factors may increase the health and rate of growth but a flower is still a flower and a weed a weed. One thing that Greg spoke of (and he was on a roll btw) was how this loss could be marked and remembered perhaps down to the memory of a single event. I look at it as an ongoing process but am curious to what he meant by that. As I look back at the photographs of my own children over Christmas celebrations of past to present I guess this loss is similar to the point when the child realizes that Santa Claus may not actually come down the chimney. How ironic is it that we grow out of things like Santa and the tooth fairy just to return full circle? I may not be innocent anymore but I won’t let that make me any less of a child.
December 28th, 2007 at 7:08 am
The way we say it here is:
“What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger
and what does kill us makes our mothers stronger…”
December 28th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Thank you!!! Thank you Penny and Greg!
I loved the further discussion of this topic and hearing your thoughts!!!!
December 29th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
For the record my mother is from Elkins West Virginia. Now the question is does Greg feel remorse or is he saying to himself, ” Well that explains a lot.” I also enjoyed the foot teaching segment as well as Penny quickly answering the Don Henley / Eagles trivia attack on her person. Well done. In good humor I would really like to see The Gregster put on the spot. Perhaps an invitation during the next call in show to stump him with a Harry Potter or StarWars question? He can dish it out but can he take it? I think that’s a pretty fair idea for a fellow with West Virginia genetic don’t you?
December 30th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Aaron: on the next call in show, everyone is free to put me on the spot. Brint it on!
December 30th, 2007 at 8:09 am
Personally I thought the Pottercast interview was awesome!
If there is one thing that it does show it is that sometimes dreams come true (at least for the pottercasters) – Greg take notice.
The relationship that Jo has with her fandom is really quite unique and I think it is a combination of the right person in the right place at the right time. As much as I don’t want her to keep on revealing more secrets which I may have prefered to leave to my imagination I find myself immensely enjoying every interaction between her and the fandom. While there may be many classic books which I can prognosticate on on my own I doubt that I will ever have another opportunity to interact with an author of her stature so close to the time of their books being printed.
Now back to Harry’s innocence. I think that in a way Harry’s case must be analyzed taking into account that his initial innocence was in a sence robbed from him by the Dursleys and only returned to him later as he was introduced to the wizarding world. His loss of innocence would therefore be the point where he ceases to be enamored of the wizarding world (don’t ask me when exactly that is).
December 30th, 2007 at 10:05 am
For some reason, I can’t hear this weeks episode. It wont work on iTunes for me, aswell as just listening on here. Unless, it’s just my laptop?!
And JKR has nothing to worry about in that video; it’s the best book in the series, in my opinion!
December 30th, 2007 at 10:06 am
Okay, nevermind. It’s sorted now! =]
December 30th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Hello everyone, I consider myself the “number one potter fan” and so I am issuing a challenge to all the listeners to this pod cast. I want everyone to come up with the hardest questions for every Potter book that you can think of. If I can not answer them right, I will no longer consider myself the “number one fan”. Bring it on!
December 30th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Hmmmm to pin down an exact time that Harry changed I would agree with Greg that the innocence of Harry and of the books were lost at Cedricks death. Voldemort’s return extc. It all became very real and the books became very dark and angry. My daughter would say when Harry started snogging or Ron and Lavendar became so mushy. My youngest boy would say when Harry put on the green spartan armor and took out the death eaters with a plasma grenade. Of course my wife would say <”huh?” I do agree with Shimon that the Durselys took away a lot from Harry and he was not truely able to dream until Hagrid showed up. ( Hagrid is so cool) Potter’s #1 I have no doubt that you are much more adept in Potter knowledge than I, but I will say there are those on here that could tell you the PH and atomic weight ot the ink on each page. My question would be what exactly are the uses of dragons blood?
December 30th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
none of the books ever said what dragons blood is used for exactly, but Rowling has stated that one of the properties is oven cleaner.
December 30th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Ok name the 2 most common ways to rid your garden of knombs?
December 31st, 2007 at 7:46 am
Aaron-
I was just watching the documentary and the narrarator said “… one of the reasons Harry Potter is so full of iealized fathe figures HAGRID, dumbledore and Sirius Black……”
HAGRID RULES
December 31st, 2007 at 8:06 am
of course one could argue that there are quite a number of things wrong ith that statement……..
December 31st, 2007 at 8:47 am
Yeah, the narrarator has no clue
December 31st, 2007 at 11:24 am
I have to agree with greg on the pottercast. I really could care less about all the hufflepuff stuff and pottercast’s vindication against harry not being a horocurx. I wanted her to discuss more of the underlying theories of harry potter, similar to what is discussed here just from her point of view. plus sue’s voice is like nails on chalkboard for me.
December 31st, 2007 at 11:28 am
Hey I paid top dlar for that narrator! Just be glad I couldn’t get Jim Dale as he is busy with that pushing up daisys show. :0
December 31st, 2007 at 11:33 am
Should say top dollar… time to change the batteries. He isn’t just Hagrid ….he is super Hagrid !!!!!!!!!!
December 31st, 2007 at 1:57 pm
well the one way I know is to grab the gnome, spin it around, and then through it as far as you can so it doesn’t remember how to get back to your garden. Although it never works because they will find there way back anyway. Now the second way I’m not sure if it was in the seven books I would know. I did not read the beasts and where to find them book because I could not find a braille or audio copy so you will have to try harder in order to catch me off garde. Good luck next time!
December 31st, 2007 at 6:36 pm
I completely agree with the concept that Haarry’s loss of innocence was a gradual process. Hedwig, I believe, was not Harry’s cause for his loss of innocence but rather one of the last attachments Harry had with Hogwarts. Hedwig and the Firebolt needed to be lost or destroyed in order for Harry to be able to carry out his mission since they would constantly remind of the place he was leaving, his only true home. The other factors that would have kept him form completing his mission were going with him, Ron and Hermione.
January 2nd, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Hey Happy new year!!!!!! New month too so don’t forget to vote for this gem of a podcast! It will make you feel good about yourself!
January 3rd, 2008 at 3:54 am
I don’t usually listen to pottercast but I did just for the JK interview, and I agree with Greg about what the interview was like and the sort of questions they were asking. One question I thought was quite interesting was the one about ‘what was actually in the love room,’ as I think you disscussed this in a previous episode and actually it was just a really powerful love potion. I thought it was going to be something different, what are everyone else’s thoughts?
Liked this weeks podcast very much and have a happy 2008.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:21 am
like greg i thought it was going to be a giant pulseating heart
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Hey Greg!
I downloaded Handbrake as you suggested to get my OoTP dvd on my iPod but it says it can’t do it because it’s copyrighted. What did you do about this?
Thanks!
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Hey everyone. I am new to the comment thing but I have been listening for a while. Anyways firstly, Happy New Year to everyone and I hope you have a good one.
JKR Interview:
I listen to a lot of different HP podcast (4) and one of them is Pottercast and I was astounded that they actually got JKR on their podcast. More surprising is that if you listened to the 2nd half of the interview they say that she called them. Wow! I liked the interview and thought that some of the questions that they asked were quite good while others were pointless. Like Greg I thought that they could have asked better questions but is their podcast and I guess they can ask whatever questions they want. Atleast I know that if HP Prognostications ever gets JKR on, they will ask her the right questions.
JKR “A Year in the Life”:
Oh my goodness. This is the documentary that I think that fans wanted. It explaines JKR’s family and rough past. How she was down and out, fell into depression, but somehow found the inner strength to keep going and pull herself out of the gutter. My favorite part in the documentary was when she goes back to her old house where it all began and she goes into “her room” and sees Harry Potter books there, then she just balls into tears. This is what I like about JKR is that she is a great writer but she is also a great person and is thankful for what she has and knows that there are people
Loss of Innocence:
As for this week’s podcast, I think that the moment when Dobby died was when he lost his innocence. Not that he hadn’t lost bits along the way but I think that up until that point he still had his little kid blinders on. Let me explain. Before Dobby died, when they first learn about the Deathly Hallows and they are at the Lovegoods. Harry want the reserection stone only to as Dumbledore said that he wanted it, to “bring back those who were at peace”. Later when Harry actually uses the stone he uses it to give him the strength to make the sacrifice. To me, the loss of Hedwig and his Firebolt was his loss of childhood but not his loss of innocence. His loss of childhood meant that he couldn’t run. Just jump on his Firebolt and fly away and hope that Voldemort doesn’t follow him. His loss of innocence means that he realizes that no one is safe and this for keeps. No jokes, no trying again, just death. Greg and Penny said that they thought that Harry’s first turn toward innocence was when Cedric died in Goblet of Fire. That is a good idea however my opinion is that he began turning when Sirius died. In the Ministry of Magic he tries to Crucio Bellatrix. However it didn’t work all the way but it did kinda work and the point that I was trying to make is that he was ready to use unforgivable curses at 15. He was ready to hurt her and that to me sounds like a, if not a good bit atleast a, turn in the way toward the loss of innocence.
Oh and Potter’s Number One Fan here is your part: “Severus please.” How many times is this line said in the Harry Potter Series (7 books) and on what occasion are they said? And who said them?
January 4th, 2008 at 9:23 am
First of all, this is Penny (I am too lazy to log out).
The Pensieve Horcrux- Interesting take on the loss of innocence. First of all, I totally forgot about Dobby dying adding to Harry’s loss of innocence, but that was definitely a turning point in Harry’s life. I would almost look at that moment (along with the epiphany at DD’s funeral) not just as an ending of Harry’s innocence but as a turning point into adulthood for Harry. That was one of the first times in the series that Harry actively made an adult decision that wasn’t based on his raw emotions.
January 4th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Kimba: – download and install http://www.dvd43.com/ ; it will decrpyt the DVD on the fly and allow Handbrake to capture it.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
This is a hard one to answer. Off the top of my head I think the following. book 3 Chapter 19 Lupin, book 6 Chapter 27 Dumbledore. I do not think there is any more, however if I’m wrong, you tell me were to find them, and if you can not tell me, then ask something that you know the answer to yourself thanks for the hard question!
January 4th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Did Charity Burbage say it in DH in chapter 1?
January 4th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Yes you got me on that one, that I think is the only one I am missing.
January 5th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Narcissa also says it at Spinners End.
January 5th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
OK I think I got outsmarted on this one, lets try another question.
January 5th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
oh yes, it was indeed a brilliant question.
January 7th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Thanks Greg! It worked. I was really annoyed that I bought the special edition and the so-called extras were horrible for the most part and I couldn’t even put it on my iPod. Gee – why would they make it so you could put it on the mp3 player that’s far more popular than all the others put together?