Episode #60: Harry Potter and The Golden Compass
J.K. Rowling’s Harry Potter series has reinvigorated a generation and turned them on to reading. But what to read when the battle against Lord Voldemort is at an end? One of the more popular answers is Phillip Pullman’s His Dark Materials trilogy
Joining us on this week’s episode is Travis Prinzi, proprietor of SwordOfGryffindor.com. Travis’ background in philosophy and literature were especially enlightening in this discussion.
Here is a link to the interview that Travis mentioned on the show: Phillip Pullman and Peter Chataway, an award-winning Christian film critic.
In the news:
- JK Rowling talked about Multiple Sclerosis on “Your Total Health”.
- The Potter actors (not Chris Rankin) are on ANOTHER Forbes list.
You can listen to this podcast with the player below, or download an mp3 directly.
Tags: atheism, Books, christianity, golden compass, Harry Potter, JK Rowling, literature, phillip pullman, philosophy, religion
December 6th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Cool show. I like the change of pace/format. Really let Greg geek out. I think the call in show sounds like fun. Dealing technically would be challenging and enjoyable. The Hagrid mention brought me to tears and as far as the Amazon Box goes, let me know what happens because I still have mine too. Actually put a copy of the book back in it and put it in a time capsule. Well off to work and great job to Travis if he reads this. I could just imagine Greg and he in the basement playing dungeons and dragons. Kudo’s to Penny for hanging tough in that discussion. She is much braver than I. Great job again!
December 7th, 2007 at 11:23 am
I personally will NOT let my children watch the Golden Compass nor read any of Pullman’s novels. I have found this release of this movie just another ploy by the liberal mumbo jumbo Hollywood antigods .. I see who is in it and thats a turn off right off the bat..
I put this movie in the same heap I put the inconsistent truth ….
Bah Humbug!
December 7th, 2007 at 11:59 am
Good stuff. I have only heard of the Pullman books through Harry Potter podcasts and I’m still debating whether I want to read them. They don’t sound very enjoyable, despite personal beliefs. I do like reading books before I watch movie adaptations, but I may have to switch it this time.
I enjoyed Travis on the show. Maybe he could come back for a show about Harry Potter. I agree, his future students are in for a treat.
You know, I still have my B&N bag and receipt from books 6 and 7 and I think that’s a little more weird than keeping the box since the box probably has stuff written on it. Maybe you could make it in to a Harry Potter “treasure box.” You could put little things like ticket stubs and recepits and stuff from your Prophecy visit in it and visit back after some time. It’s a little childish I know, but then again “If you thought Harry Potter/treasure boxes were just for kids…”
December 7th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Hi, Congrats on another great show - and timely too. I just finished GC and I … hated it. The agenda is not the issue - the fact that the characters are not likable and the plot is REALLY unpleasant is the problem.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Hi guys,
Great show! I’ve had “The Golden Compass” on my list of “to read” books, and I’ve struggled through about the first 50 pages more than once. It’s so uninteresting to me. There’s no hook for me.
It also surprises me that the anti-Harry people have been so blinded by their hatred of Harry and it’s “promotion of witchcraft” that they’ve virtually ignored this series that has such an overt agenda.
Also, Greg, I’ve heard you mention not getting the allegory in “The Chronicles of Narnia” when you were younger. Speaking as someone who was raised Christian, I totally picked up on the allegory when I was a kid. It’s interesting and the mark of Lewis’s genius that his story works on both levels and is enjoyable to all.
Having your podcast later in my week is always a highlight. It’s usually the first thing that gets a listen on Thurs or Fri mornings.
Thanks!
December 8th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
I must make a confession. I have been, and continue to be, a “book bigot and snob”.
Even though both my 8 year old, & 22 year old daughters and even my older sister kept telling me how much I would enjoy the books, still I did not start reading them until after the “Chamber” had been out for quite a while.
Why?
Religious reasons?
Am I no better than those who wanted the Harry Potter books banned because they had witches and wizards in them who dared to use magic?
Of course, the Harry Potter books did not promote Wicca.
(Note: Wicca was federally recognized as a religion in the United States in the 1960s.)
No, I am not that narrow minded. Banned books are the first books I buy and read.
The real reason I did not read Harry Potter was because of age AGE discrimination. It was a CHILD’s book. I did not read children’s books.
Recently I was looking through our library bookshelves for something to read and my now 15-year-old daughter suggested the Golden Compass series. Interestingly, she gave a similar review as I heard on your podcast. She came to the same conclusion. She stated the author had problems with religion and felt the last book was not the author’s best because he was trying to drive his message through to obviously. She recognized it for what it was. She was able to do this because she reads all sorts of books, pro and con. Still, it was a “teen” book. So I thanked her and continued looking.
Then I heard your podcast and again became painfully aware of my Age Discrimination problem and pulled the first book off the shelf.
I would neither restrict my daughter, or my, reading to only Christian books. I hope she reads all sorts of books that give her lots of ways of looking at the world from different religious, political points of views and from reality to fantasy.
And I am trying to stop being an AGE BIGOT.
Though one might have thought Harry Potter would have cured me.
I am taking one step at a time as I open the Golden Compass.
Thank you for doing this podcast and helping me take the next step dealing with my age bigotry. Ya know, I have not read the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe since I was a kid. Maybe I will find new meaning in it now that I have an adult’s eye.
MoeW27
Answer to your question about the box.
The grown up in me says, “Recycle it.”
The kid in me says, “Put it one of those plastic bag things that takes all the air out and put it away forever.”
December 8th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
[...] finished The Golden Compass this week, and did an interview with Harry Potter Prognostications on Pullman vs. Rowling, with some C.S. Lewis analysis as [...]
December 8th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
*Excellent* episode, really thought-provoking and terrific. I read “His Dark Materials” a few years ago, and came out thinking that Pullman is a great writer who needs a steady dose of humble-pills before I touch anything of his again. I happen to be extraordinarily obtuse when it comes to allegory, so while I picked up on the “subtle” theme of RELIGION IS BAD AND WANTS TO KIIIIILLL YOU, I still could not see where it was going until the very end.
What did strike me right from the start of the third book was that Pullman either had stopped or had never cared about his characters. As Greg and Travis said, they were simply statements, ideas which he collected and organized into a sledgehammer of an allegory. Frankly, it was a bit insulting; why should a reader invest in his characters when the author does not?
December 8th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
Interesting podcast, although I disagreed COMPLETELY with it. I LOVE the entire HDM series, and I think you’re both taking the series (and some of Pullman’s remarks on it) way too literally. I ALWAYS took the “Authority” to be some people’s warped twisted idea of God rather than the actual God, and as was pointed out, whatever Pullman’s actual beliefs may be, he has succeeded in being a theologian in spite of himself. I also loved the story and the character of Lyra - found her much more interesting than those namby-pamby (for the most part) kids in the Narnia books. Maybe you’re reading them in the same way as I read the Narnia series, knowing in advance about the author’s so-called “agenda,” that’s all you could see - though actually, the first time I read The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, I knew nothing about it and felt like I was being hit over the head with the whole Aslan-Jesus allegory. I almost feel like you started out with a decided prejudice against it.
Interestingly enough, one of the co-producers of the movie said that in all the years she’d been involved with it, she never had met a kid who “got” the agenda. They were all caught up in the story. Maybe it’s only adults that have the problem with both series.
I’m also kind of disappointed that Greg in particular made the comments about the Authority resembling the “Old Testament” God. Being raised Jewish, he should know that there is no “Old Testament” and “New Testament” God. There is plenty of nastiness in the New Testament (no eternal punishment for non-believers in Judaism), and a lot of love and tenderness in the prophets, in particular.
December 8th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
Incidentally, I’ve never actually READ the books. There is a wonderful audio version done with a full cast that I’ve listened to about five times, and maybe that makes a difference.
I also LOVE Harry Potter, by the way, and have always enjoyed both your and Travis’ podcasts - they’re the only two that I subscribe to and I always listen to them as soon as I can.
December 9th, 2007 at 12:59 am
Leslie J: I haven’t read much of the New Testament, but I am somewhat familiar with the overarching themes of Christianity and how they contrast with Rabbinic (i.e. traditional) Judaism. I think it’s pretty well-established that Christianity is, or was, essentially a referendum on rabbinic Judaism, which was comprised of both divine and rabbinc authority. This included a new conceptualization of how God interacts with Man. This is really a huge, huge topic (we’re talking about the meaning of the Bible here).
December 9th, 2007 at 2:05 am
Huge topics are usually based faced by keeping it simple and uncomplicated. ( at least for me) Judaism is a basis from which Jesus taught and actually was part of. So in that sense I figure Christianity actually came from Judaism much like Lutheran and Protestant Christianity came from Catholism. Most all monothesistic modern religions all follow a Judea-Christian concept in the western world so I have always self concluded that all are linked by the same intent and what ever faith a child is born into or an adult chooses to follow actually equals the same energy that is life. Kinda like hearing the same news story on TV but some watch Fox and others CNN. The reporting doesn’t change what happened or what is but mat affect the individuals perception. The truth is while these perceptions can cause debate and even war that they are ours and you have to keep the what is pure and uncontaminated by humanities natural urge to accept things as fact to make things fit as we like. In the 12th century the truth was the world was flat and even though it was widely accepted it didn’t make it so. The huge topic of the meaning of the Bible, Tora, Koran and the other holy references is not controversal. People are and being able to find the what is rather the meaning is not something we have created the words for or even really need to comprehend. It is a faith that God is good and people are imperfect. A faith that our short comings can be made right by a previnient grace from a perfect unconditional love.
That’s what looking around at the world tells me and why I spent such a bug part of my life defending a country that allows everyone to worship or believe as they choose. I mean Penny even said happy birthday to Hagrid. After that how hard can world peace be?
December 9th, 2007 at 9:50 am
I would like everyone to read a pome I had to right for my english class. It won best pome of the 11th grade!. Tell me what you think.
Manny Aguero
December 9, 2007
A life changing series
Books can be fun, boring, interesting, informative, or just purely unbelievable.
The books that I enjoy the most, fall into the latter category.
For it is the mysteries and magic that I take a fancy to.
It is these mythical magical mysteries of this particular book series of which I had endeavored and vowed I would read until the very end.
I told myself when I first picked up book one of this purely unbelievable series, that I would read each and everyone of these books through to the very end ,without pausing once on my journey.
For ten years I followed a child through his tale, not pausing once, not looking back.
With each new installment the series became darker.
When characters fell victim to a murderers quest for domination, I shed tears.
when battles were won I rejoiced.
when characters I had come to love were killed ,I openly wept.
When characters I had come to despise were killed, I celebrated.
So upon me came the summer of two thousand seven, where I learned that this book series would be ending.
I can not describe to you the sadness I felt in realizing that this was it, the train would stop soon.
The train would stop when I finished the final novel.
When at last I had the book in my hands, I proceeded to read.
When at last I was done, with more tears shed, I climbed into my bed and fell asleep thinking about the seven part tale that was now at an end.
I had done what I said I would do, read until the very end.
I should not have to tell you what series I had read.
Because if you, like me, picked up that first book ten years ago, you will have reached the same train station as I have done.
December 9th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Aaron, very well said, I can’t and won’t wade into anything religious because apart from going to a Presbetarian school (see I can’t even spell it correctly) I don’t have any teachings with which to form an argument. I will say if only the rulers of our countries could have the same sense of mind.
Re the Pullman books I have picked them up several times but never delved into their pages. I found that after Harry Potter there seem to be too many authors jumping on the bandwagon and trying to entice us into worlds that are just too similar. In some ways Ms Rowling has spoiled reading for me as I just can’t find anything else that I enjoy. I have even started re reading the HP books from the beginning. Maybe being an adult will make it even harder because it must be very hard to write a book that effects so many ages.
I loved The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe as a child, I read it purely as a fantasy book and never picked up on any allegorys (maybe because of what I said above). It was the HP of my childhood, with most people I know owning at least that one book if not the series like I do.
December 9th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
I’m a new listener and just wanted to say that you guys do a great job!
December 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
Greg, maybe I was misunderstanding you, but the way those terms are generally used in my experience is to imply that God in the OT is angry and vindictive, when He magically becomes full of mercy and love in the NT. In other words, the “NT God” is portrayed as decidedly superior to the “OT God.” Personally, I don’t think that the way Jesus related to God is all that different from the way the rabbis did, mainly because he was a product of that culture, and it’s all much more complex than is allowed for by the usual dichotomy. I highly recommend the book _The Misunderstood Jew_, by Amy-Jill Levine, a Jewish feminist who attends an Orthodox shul and teaches New Testament at a Christian school in the buckle of the Bible Belt.
Another thought about this podcast - it also may have been a little too rushed, possibly because of the movie coming out this week, because I didn’t really feel that either you or Travis was that well prepared. It would seem that you should have both at least read the first book if not the whole trilogy, and then given it a little time to stew, because he’s got a lot going on there, and I don’t see how you could have been fair to him even with the best of intentions. I also have to say that you are the only ones I’ve ever heard say that Pullman started out with an agenda and then constructed a story around it. Most people I’ve heard or read, even the ones who feel that he is too preachy at places, allow that it’s a great story.
You would also have found that even though there are world-changing (not necessarily apocalyptic) events near the end, the actual ending is not really that different from Harry Potter. Things improve generally but they’re certainly not perfect, and people have to go on living in a very real and flawed world. Since the idea that this world is all there is and that we need to live life to the full is one of his main themes, I don’t see how it could end any other way.
December 9th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Incidentally, Mizz Andy, a lot of people have jumped on the Harry Potter bandwagon, but Philip Pullman wasn’t one of them. _The Golden Compass_ was published in 1995. The first Harry Potter book wasn’t published until 1997, and they’re both completely original.
December 9th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Leslie, I didn’t realise that, I guess for me if it wasn’t for HP I wouldn’t be searching out other books to now fill my void. Here in NZ it seems as though all the book shops are now pushing Pullman’s books as ‘the next HP’ maybe to time with the movies.
As a 34 year old I don’t normally search the teen book shelves for something to read (although I am a big Lois Duncan fan, loved her books as a teen and have since gone on to buy most of them). But the bookshops have been going out of their way to intice the HP adult readers by promoting all sorts of series to us and I am just finding them all much of the same. Nothing will fill my Snapeless void now!
December 10th, 2007 at 1:10 am
Leslie J: “the way those terms are generally used in my experience is to imply that God in the OT is angry and vindictive, when He magically becomes full of mercy and love in the NT.”
That wasn’t the dichotomy I intended. I see the OT as authority and law based, wheras the NT is more based on personal relationship. One creates a political system, the other provides individual salvation. One is more concerned with the public, the other the private. One is particular, the other universal.
We felt the topic was relevant and timely, and prepared as best we could. I stand by my review, having read all three books. I still think that the Golden Compass was good, and it went downhill from there.
December 10th, 2007 at 11:00 am
I don’t think the movie is doing all that great either.
December 10th, 2007 at 11:35 am
Hi! This is my 1st time leaving a comment. I found your podcast this past spring while waiting for DH and I loved it! After listening to that first one, I went back and dl all your past podcats. I really enjoy listening to you both. That said, I love Travis Prinzi and I was very excited to have this week’s podcast on The Golden Compass. I have an 8 year old who wants to read it but with all the talk about it, I want to read it first. He is currently reading OotP, and I told him he needs to finish that series first before he starts a new series. Also, he wants to read HBP before the movie comes out. Reading the book first before seeing the movie will be a new experience for him. Anyway, thanks for the great show! It sounded much better this week with your new equipment. Great job!
December 10th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
OKay, I just wanted to hear someone elses take on
something that has bothered me since I first
read Deathly Hallows. There is a line about Cloin
Creevey looking on small in death. OK what is the
deal. He would have been at least 16, very
possiblt seventeen. He was in the class behind
Harry. So why would he be so small, did Jo keep him
in her mind as the little first year that adored
Harry? But he wasn’t a little kid anymore. Be
was in his sixth year. DO you think she just
missed it on that one.
BTW I really did like your point of no one
redeeming themselves. That was disappointing. ANd
the only one that even came close was Narcissa.
December 10th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Sarah - I would personally say that 8 is too young for the Pullman books. Probably 11 or 12 at the youngest. Most kids even of that age are only going to get the story, but there are still some pretty disturbing scenes and events. The fight between the bears is particularly realistic.
December 10th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Greg - Sorry - I thought that you had only read the first book, maybe that was Travis. I guess we can agree to disagree on the books. It’s just a shame, to me, that you were both mostly negative about them. It would have been nice to have someone who really knew it well and appreciated it as a counterpoint.
On the views of God, the OT spans something like 500 years and the rabbis are a few centuries after that, so it’s kind of hard to make any kind of overarching statement, though the last 4 books of the Torah in particular are more concerned with community and obeying the commandments. Certainly the entire Mediterranean world at the turn of the era was evolving towards the idea of a more personal relationship with God(s), even though the rabbis never went as far as the Christians did.
I still think that Pullman’s Authority is much more a reflection of the worst kind of religion/ideology of any type, and his experience and background are Christian. He has said that he has the same opinion of an atheist authoritarianism like Stalinism. Whatever he may have intended, I definitely have a sense of a kind of benign guiding force in the series, maybe working through Dust, as in LOTR when Gandalf tells Frodo that Bilbo was _meant_ to find the ring and therefore he (Frodo) was _meant_ to have it.
December 10th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
First of all- Hi to all the new listeners who have posted for the first time here! Welcome- we definitely look forward to hearing more from you all.
Sarah B- we have an 8 year old son as well and I personally think that 8 is a bit young for the Golden compass. Even without the violence or mature subjects- I think the writing is above the 8 year old mindset- even kids who have read Harry Potter. Just my opinion.
Alicia-here is how I look at the Colin Creevy line (which is actually one of my tear jerker lines of the book). I don’t think that Jo has kept Colin as that small little first year. I think that she was demonstrating how the war took children and made them grow up faster than they needed to- yet they really were just children. Colin made the choice to sneak back into the castle- he either did it out of a strong sense of responsibilty and with maturity (he was a member of the DA after all) or out of misplaced admiration for Harry. But he was forced to fight as an adult because he made that decision. But it doesn’t change the fact that he was still a kid- whether he was of age or not. I think Harry recognized this when he thought that colin looked tiny in death. And I think that Harry (as opposed to Jo) might have psychologically thought of him as the tiny first year who he met 6 years ago.
December 10th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Well if it is too much for an 8 year old it must be way too much for me.
December 10th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
wow another sarah B…, good podcast,i read the his dark material series in jr high, and i enjoyed, them, but i havent read them recently, so i dont know wether i would get really annoyed by the agenda or not. my dad ordered Deathly hallows from amazon, (while i went @ midnight) and i cut out part of the box and wrote on it (the date ect.) and taped it to my wall(stupid teenage girl), but i plan to put in a scrapbook that is all about this harry potter filled summer.
December 10th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Thanks so much for the great podcasts!
This is my first posting or leaving a reply on HPProgs. I am writing in response to my unfortunate disappointment with Travis Prinzi. Let me continue to write, I LOVED, loved the idea of having the guest on the show and was excited to hear Travis Prinzi on the show.
But wow was I ever disappointed with Mr. Prinzi. Granted, I only minored in lit for a short while, but the first rule of talking about any literature is one first has to READ THE LITERATURE.
I would have been a little more intent to hear Mr. Prinzi’s opinions knowing he had, at the very least, read the first book of His Dark Materials. This was the first and only time I have ever started listening to one of the podcasts and turned it off.
I know it was great of him to take the time to sit and chat with you guys but really I would have just listened to you both talk about the books instead. I am also bummed at the dismal reaction to His Dark Materials. I read the books when the first were published before Pullman made his comments about the books and loved them for what they were. Great pieces of fantasy fiction. And now, being a geographer, I love the way in which there are elements from my discipline intertwined throughout the books going back and reading them now.
Well that’s it… sorry I ranted a bit… LOVE the podcast will listen until I die or you guys quit… I hope neither happens but in the mean time, I will listen to some of my old favs and wait for a new podcast!!!
Thanks!
December 10th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Greg & Penny,
Loved the show with Travis. Kind of combined my two favorite podcasts on Harry Potter. Just had to make a note on some of the things you all said about CS Lewis & how he didn’t let his characters grow up. Well, for one, not all the characters are in all of the Narnia books, & two, the main characters die young.
As for his portrayal of Susan, which I think people have the most problem with, Lewis is not saying that growing up is bad but that Susan’s obsession with lipsticks & nylons & parties, et al, causes her to forget Narnia. She loses faith as it were & rejects Narnia. Peter is seen studying hard for exams, but he doesn’t forget Narnia. Lucy & Edmund study new subjects & learn new skills in England, but they don’t forget Narnia. So, it’s not growing up that’s the problem, it’s becoming worldly & by doing so, forgetting & rejecting the spiritual realm, represented by Narnia.
Anyway, thanks for the great podcasts.
December 11th, 2007 at 8:05 am
Ok after much sincere thought and deliberation I must ask all intelligent commentors a serious question. What if the Hokey Pokey is actually what it is all about?
December 11th, 2007 at 9:27 am
Personnaly, I didn’t enjoy His dark materials trilogy and I thought perharps it’S because I listenend to the audiobooks. While listening to it I could not stop thinking that the story was jumping from one place to another evrything 10 minutes and without plausible reasons or explanations. Even if I were a child I would pick up on these annoying things because you need to undertsand, as a reader, that the plot is going here because it has to, not just because the author needs it to. I saw the movie yesterday, and well, it’s jumping all over the place.
i feel like if Phillip Pullman would have wrote Harry Potter, he would have done it in a 250 pages book going: Harry is born, harry saves the philosophers stone, next year kills a basilisk, next year meets godfather… etc
What to read after Harry Potter ? Jane Austen maybe, and if you have more time on your hands, The Wheel of Time.
Great show!!! Keep on keepin’ on !
December 11th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Orlando Bloom
Orlando Jones
or…Lando Calrissian
Great show as always. I came to read HP from the lense of mystery and suspense. Now that this series is over I’m back to good old fashioned detective stories.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Aaron, my only answer to that is 42.
December 11th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Fantastic topic!! This is very timely. Great post-DH discussion.
I was recommended the His Dark Materials series after finishing Deathly Hallows, and I started reading the books just as the email petitions began.
I’m a staunch Christian, and so I had some worries about completing the series…but I did it, with my religious convictions intact.
Pullman makes the same error many other atheists seem to make: they mistake the organization of the church for the doctrine. He never presented any beliefs through his books that challenged my way of thinking; his criticisms are always about the people in charge, their corruption, their bad decisions. Even the main threat of his fantasy world is a corrupt usurper. Ultimately, the anti-religousness didn’t even matter, because the arguments he used were quite weak.
Sorry, I cannot imagine being religiously threatened by this.
Other than the religious content, I found Pullman’s narrative voice too detached and his characters not compelling. The overshadowing agenda was annoying, too; if not for that, it would have been a very interesting, creative series. But he’s too ham-fisted about The Point He Wants to Make.
I know many people claim that Pullman is superior to Rowling, but I’d take Harry Potter over His Dark Materials, always. The characters are more sympathetic and developed better, the conflict is more interesting, and there are mysteries and shades of grey that resonate with and compel the reader. There is far more richness and complexity in HP, whether you consider the religious themes in each series or not.
December 11th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Dseidell- Didn’t we say Orlando Bloom and Orlando Jones? i can’t remember. Lando Calrissian just doesn’t work for the name game, but good pull.
December 12th, 2007 at 1:39 am
I like Rangers Apprentice books, Ive read all of them, but they are for younger readers(about age 10) and Im almost 18, so they are a bit ’simple’ but I still love them.
They are probebly not quite as famous as Harry Potter, but a bit less predictable and more varied then HP.
Anti-religious? Religion isn’t bad, people are naturally bad and use religion as an excuse to kill each other.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:55 am
sally: I’ll check out the Rangers Apprentice books, if not for me, then at least for my son. Thanks! And you’re point about religion is spot on!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:23 am
Orlando Brown
Orlando Magics
December 12th, 2007 at 11:26 am
Lalala- Excellent Pull! I think we are going to have to do the name game on the live episode. Good times.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
I read the first Rangers Apprentice book - unfortunately my library has the third but not the second, and I haven’t been motivated enough to request it from another branch. They’re OK, but don’t (at least the one I’ve read) have anywhere near the depth of HP or HDM. Of course, Harold Bloom dismissed Harry after only reading the first book, so I’m prepared to be proven wrong.
I’m glad to see that there’s at least one other person who liked His Dark Materials. It’s amazing how people can read (or listen to) the same thing and have completely different reactions. I actually like the discussions about ideas that other people find “preachy’ or think slow down the action, but to each his/her own. Personally, I would love to hear you guys talk to Travis again, but about Harry Potter, please!
Incidentally, here’s a quote from an interview Pullman did with MSNBC (Q&A’s from kids), which sounds eminently reasonable to me:
“In the world of the story — Lyra’s world — there is a church that has acquired great political power, rather in the way that some religions in our world have done at various times, and still do (think of the Taliban in Afghanistan). My point is that religion is at its best — it does most good — when it is farthest away from political power, and that when it gets hold of the power to (for example) send armies to war or to condemn people to death, or to rule every aspect of our lives, it rapidly goes bad. Sometimes people think that if something is done in the name of faith or religion, it must be good. Unfortunately, that isn’t true; some things done in the name of religion are very bad. That was what I was trying to describe in my story. I think the qualities that the books celebrate are those such as kindness, love, courage and courtesy too. And intellectual curiosity. All these good things. And the qualities that the books attack are cold-heartedness, tyranny, close-mindedness, cruelty, the things that we all agree are bad things….As for the atheism, it doesn’t matter to me whether people believe in God or not, so I’m not promoting anything of that sort. What I do care about is whether people are cruel or whether they’re kind, whether they act for democracy or for tyranny, whether they believe in open-minded enquiry or in shutting the freedom of thought and expression. Good things have been done in the name of religion, and so have bad things; and both good things and bad things have been done with no religion at all. What I care about is the good, wherever it comes from.”
December 12th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
The Hokey Pokey IS what it’s all about
December 17th, 2007 at 8:14 am
Thanks Leslie J and Penny for your thoughts on my 8 year old son. Even thought he is very advanced in reading, I will wait a few years for him to read them. There is plenty out there for him to read. Thanks for the welcome!
January 18th, 2008 at 12:08 am
I just found this website through listening to the Hog’s Head Pubcast and I was intrigued by the idea of comparing the Golden Compass and Harry Potter. You had a very interesting discussion, but I TOTALLY disagree with you. I LOVE LOVE LOVE His Dark Materials, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE Harry Potter. In His Dark Materials - I love the characters, I love the story, I love the fantasy. I’ve read them several times and listened to them on Audio (which is much better then the Harry Potter audio books, with a full cast of characters!!!!) I think you are reading too much into it (just like hardcore christens think Harry Potter is evil, they are reading (wrongly) too much into Harry Potter). You are purposely trying to find something that might not be there. His Dark Materials is just a STORY and a GREAT story. I’ve read both of these series equally. Pullman did not kill God- he just has some agnostic undertones just as Rowling has Christen undertones. I think you jumped the gun with have Travis since he has not read the entire series, or maybe you should have him on to discuss other topics which he has better knowledge. Or you should have someone who has fully read and enjoyed both series.
I’m excited to listen to more pobcasts. Thanks.
March 10th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
i loved harry potter and was very disapointed when it was finished. i couldnt find another book for ages. the i read his dark materials, it was brilliant. the same kind of suspense, i couldnt stop eading, i read all three books in a week. the film was very poor, not a patch on the book. and now im stuck again, i cant find anything that compares! i need a new series, and ill definitely read them slower!! anybody have any reccomondations?