Episode #42: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Reviewed
We’ve finished Deathly Hallows. We sat down to record our initial thoughts immediately after completing Book 7. I don’t think we’ve covered everything, but it’s a good start with out immediate thoughts on the book. What’s to say? The book was great, a great ending to the saga of Harry Potter.
Please note: this podcast is SPOILER-FULL. If you haven’t yet finished Deathly Hallows, and don’t want to hear spoilers, DO NOT listen to this podcast. Comments on this episode will also be SPOILER-FULL. The rest of the HPProgs.com web site will remain moderated and spoiler-free until Monday, July 23rd.
You can listen to the podcast using the player below, or download it directly as an mp3.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:04 pm
i havnt heard the podcast yet, but i LOVED the book. The ending is perfect. Although im so sad its all over, im glad it all ended happily. The epilogue or the 19 years kater was again superb. Well thats my thoughts, i finished it in a few hours and all my family and friends havnt! WOO
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 pm
I was disappointed in the epilogue!! I wanted to know about what happened to more of the characters. What about George? How did he get along without Fred? Did he re-open the joke shop? Get married? Otherwise, loved the book!
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:37 pm
o and greg, how cud u now like the harry and voldermort chatting at the end. It was great, Harry patronising Voldermort, infuriating him put the cap on the entire series. and molly finishing off bellatrix made me cheer. sad but true
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:01 pm
I received my book at 10:45am yesterday, and finished at 7:22pm.
My husband brought me meals, etc. so I was able to read it straight through- he even fielded phone calls for me!
What a ride!!!!! It was everything I expected, but nothing I feared!! I laughed, I cried, I sobbed! What a wonderful end to Harry’s story! I can’t wait to read it again- a bit less frenzied this time.
I’m waiting for my son to finish so I can talk about it with SOMEONE!!!
(My husband hasn’t read any of the books, but does like the movies.)
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:24 pm
I thought there was a better example of Voldemort’s spells not working after Harry sacrificed himself– after “King’s Cross”, Voldemort used a Cruciatus curse on Harry, but it had no effect on him.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:54 pm
I am happy that your podcast reaction was up so quickly. I have been craving to hear other peoples opinions but many groups are waiting until August and I think that is far to long to wait to discuss.
That said I agree that Snape’s death was a disappointing for me. It was very anticlimactic. I got the impression that Snape still had a great dislike for Harry but he helped him solely because of Lily. That is why he tore the picture of the potter family in half and kept lily’s picture and threw James and Harry’s portion under the dresser. I also think that Severus was jealous of how much Albus trusted Harry ( a mere child) and he didn’t seem to trust Snape as much.
I like how Snape still had his faults. I liked how he was willing to barter Voldy for Lily’s safety but not for Harry’s or James’. I loved how Albus said that this aspect of Snape’s character disgusted him.
The question I have now is what next? I am a bit depressed. I will read the book again, but after that what book series shall I read next. I find it is always hard to find another good book to read after finishing a very well written one.
So now I have the long arduous task of finding another book and characters to get wrapped up in.
I hope that you will do many podcasts about this last book.
Anyways thanks again for being so prompt in podcasting about your initial reactions.
Blessings,
luvssnape
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:02 pm
it was ok
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Hi Guys, i’m still only 1/2 way through, my plan to abandon the children wasn’t as successful as I thought it would be, hopefully be finished by tomorrow. I can’t wait to hear your thoughts. Loving it so far. I do know the end though because it looks like the spoilers I read online were true.
Just wanted to add that I finally saw the film last night and loved it. I thought Dan Radcliffe did a brilliant job especially in the MOM. I thought the other actors were ok but I was disappointed that Ron’s role had been diminished to such few lines. I did have to explain a few things to my husband and friends who haven’t read the books but they liked it as a film. Only critique was that it seemed quite jumpy, just going from scene to scene with not a lot to tie the scenes together, and Grawp looked terrible, wished they have left him out and had more at Grimmauld place to show how dark the house really was.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:18 pm
i thought the epilogue was very cookie cutter.
but cute.
i cried.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Loved the book - think it was the best one, even though I also will have to reread it. I definitely finished the book feeling kind of speechless but satisfied. The battle at the end was epic (not sure how they will do that justice in the movie adaptation!)
I’m not sure how I feel about the manner of Snape’s death. On one hand it WAS anticlimactic, but on the other, it epitomized the tragedy of Snape’s heroism. At the beginning of the book, I was almost ready to reverse my stance of him as a good guy, until I got to the doe patronus part and guessed whose it was (with a little prodding from my husband who had read it already.)
I’m not sure that Snape ever loved Harry (I didn’t get that from the memories), but I think he cared for Harry’s welfare because he loved Lily. And he loved her so much his patronus was a doe - which I thought was very touching.
So much about this book was perfect. I look forward to rereading it. The Hallows vs Horcruxes idea added to some overarching themes (use of power, choice) and character development (Voldemort, Dumbledore, Harry), which I feel I’d have to go back to in order to understand completely.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:44 pm
I dont get why Lily’s eyes were so important.
Explain please?
and the sorting hat?
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:35 pm
I am so excited to hear that you have similar views on the book. I loved the book, although she killed off my absolute favorite character (Fred). I can’t wait to hear more from you guys about the final book. I just started listening to hp prognostications a few months ago, but I really enjoy your insight.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:42 pm
I have to say that too many people are complaining about the length of the Epilogue. While I understand the desire for more length, we still get to see Harry have a family again, and that is what these books were about in a way. I also loved how all of the characters were humanized in a way that maybe we didn’t even want them to be. But that is the power that Harry had all along, the power to keep his soul uncorrupted while even having a piece of Voldemort inside of him. Something even Dumbledore couldn’t keep himself from doing, chasing down his own dream of immortality.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:49 pm
lol i listened to the podcast. first time visiting the site…and you guys pretty much had the exact thoughts i had upon finishing the book. I got my book at midnight and read it within 14 hours lol. I think it was the smartest thing i’ve ever done
But yea. Overall, good podcast. There was just one question of have, rhetorical of course because you obviously don’t know as well as I, but I wonder as to who became the new headmaster at Hogwarts? After the fight and then later again 19 years later [most likely the same person since headmasters are headmasters for quite some time...] There is the quick possibly that Minerva became it, but hmm. Who knows!
Well, I love the book.
I’m out :]
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:02 pm
I finished it in about a day, and thats a big thing for me b/c I’ve never finished a book that fast before. GREAT book, I loved the part where Hermione became Bellatrix, and they all went into the Lestrang’s vault. I liked the way that the treasure, ” burned and mutiplied.” That was pretty clever on JKR’s part. But hey, what else is new?
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:07 pm
OK, I am downloading the podcast as I write; I just want to say that I was the first to suggest that my man DOBBY was going to play a significant part in the final act of the of this saga!!!!! Where would we be with out the super elf!?! RIP
Also, I heard in a HPP podcast a while ago that Harry Potter was a horicrux and mentioned it to many of my friends, who called me an idiot. Be that as it may, you guys were right and now I get to laugh!!!
Ha Ha Ha!!!
CricketOH
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Hey, great to hear, you had about the same thoughts on the book as I did.
I’ve just one question. Why didn’t Harry die when Voldemort ‘killed’ him? I reread and I just don’t get it. I really hope someone can explain that to me.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:35 pm
The other example of Voldemort’s spells not working properly is the Full Body Bind on Neville, which he managed to throw off.
Rachael, Lily’s eyes were important because Harry inherited them and they were the only thing that reminded Snape of her. And his last words were “Look at me”, because he wanted to Lily’s (Harry’s) eyes be the last thing he saw. It’s subtle, but poignant. No magic, that’s true, but still…
The Sorting Hat… I’m assuming you are referring to Rowling’s words after PoA that “There is more to the Sorting Hat than what you have read about in the first three books.” Well, the Sorting Hat did sort of evolve. It showed that it has its own mind warning the school about being strong together, uniting against a common enemy. And though it’s enchanted to divided people into Houses it thinks that it’s a mistake. (That or the fact that it belonged to Godric Gryffindor as well, and can get the Gryffindor’s sword from wherever it is.) Again, this is a subtle evolution of the Sorting Hat as a character, but an important one, I feel.
I’m sad that the inter-house unity was never realized: all of the Slytherins left before the final battle, and people are still sorted into houses…
I didn’t expect to find the dirt on Dumbledore… I really thought he was all-good. But I really liked this development. That he had these desires for power, and then never took the post of Minister because he couldn’t trust himself with power. And how he couldn’t resist the Resurrection Stone, and put the ring on without first checking for any protections/curses on it. It was great. I love Dumbledore.
I loved the idea that Ron learned to speak a word in Parseltongue! It removed all my doubts about whether Parseltongue is learnable. I mean there was the indication that Dumbledore understood it because of the Morfin’s memory in which he and Voldemort spoke exclusively in Parseltongue… So it was cool.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:36 pm
I think it’s pretty clear that J.K. Rowling is Catholic. Her use of Saints (Dumbledore, James, Lily, etc.) as guardians and friends from the other side, her use of spiritual objects to remind us of strength (RAB locket, the shard of mirror, the sword), her constant use of trinity (3 friends, Deathly Hallows, Grindelwald, Dumbledore, Voldemort, 3 adversaries fighting V and Bella at the end, etc), and various other elements scream from the scriptures. We even have the Judas character, Wormtail, dying by “his own hand”. I’m not sure weather Snape is Peter or Paul, but he’s probably one of them.
Her treatment of death, eternity, Love, and fear are deeply spiritual. That is why I love these books so much.
To be honest, this is not my favorite. I agree with Penny that the first 3/4 dragged. I think her style was inconsistent. The first few chapters were much better than those in the middle. The epilogue seemed thrown together. Greg’s an idiot if he didn’t realize that Ted was snogging Tonks’ daughter!
My wish to discuss the book right after finishing it was overwhelming. I’m so thankful to you and this forum that I am able to satisfy that need.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:40 pm
1-I think Snape’s tragic death was necessary. His revealing the prophecy to Voldy precluded a happy ending in this lifetime. I was unhappy with the method of his execution. Voldy always used the AK. Why did he use Nagini this once? From a plot perspectivce, JKR did it that way to enable Snape to give his memories to Harry. But it didn’t fit. But from a literary perspective, Snape could not have lived.
2- Those of you complaining about the epilogue need to understand that it was written for only one primary reason, with a distant second. The paragraph beginning with “Albus Severus” was the purpose of the epilogue. It gave closure to the Snape saga (and made me cry the three times I read it!) The distant second is Draco. We see that he is not buddies with the others, but there is a certain degree of repentance we witness from the fact that he doesn’t give his usual sneer when seeing Harry and the others. All the rest, the marriages, kids’ names etc, are unnecessary gravy.
3-Peter’s death was well executed. Fred’s death was in my opinion unnecessary. I think that Hagrid is the character who got JKR’s reprieve when she decided to have him carry Harry out of the forest, and that Fred was the one who suffered his fate only when JKR made an 11th hour decision.
4-I loved the way that incomplete but meaninful redemption through love became the Malfoy story. JKR was rasonable enough not to make it complete. But the love that begin at Spinner’s End at the begininng of HBP was beautifully retold and developed. Narcissa’s love for her only son, a darker version of Lily’s, selfish, hence her name, has its merits that provide an essential plot point in Voldy’s end. Well done.
5-JKR’s mention of the Erised mirror and Dumbledore’s reflection was a great tribute to fans and to her own writing skill.
6-Neville made me so proud. Neville’s grandmother made me so proud.
7-Dumbledore’s first words to Harry at King’s Cross choked me up as well, repeatedly.
8-I cannot understand why Voldy thought his AK would work in the Great Hall. What difference did he possibly see between his attempt in the Hall and his attempt in the Forest? Was it a “Suicide by Police” thing, where a person knowingly forfeits his life by trying to shoot a cop? I cannot see a way out of that question.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:46 pm
I feel slightly alone after reading everyone’s comments. I felt very disappointed with the Deathly Hallows. I felt like there were just too many events in the book. I was disappointed that the Deathly Hallows became a quest instead of just focusing on the horcruxes. I was looking forward to the search for each horcrux and the solutions to destroying them. I felt that the search for them was ridiculously long or way too short - very unsatisfying. I felt that Draco, Neville, Snape, and Wormtail weren’t developed or resolved in a meaningful way. And I was annoyed that there were so many “borrowed” elements: the locket around the neck reminded me of the ring in the Lord of the Rings; the sword in the water like the King Author legend; and the Deathly Hallows like the quest for the grail kind of thing or more recently like the da Vinci Code. Aberforth was just sort of thrown in at the end, and I didn’t really feel that Dumbledore’s past was all that illuminating. I had a hard time believing that Voldemort and the Death Eaters could take over Hogwarts and the Ministry without more of a protest from the general Magical world. And if was SO OBVIOUS there was going to be a big fight in the end, but did the house elves have to come up with kitchen utensils? Why did the spiders join in? And what were the giants doing there? It was a bit too much for me.
Some of the most intriguing questions from the previous books were also disappointing. The mystery around Harry’s eyes was totally anticlimactic and there was absolutely no way anyone could have figured out why Dumbledore had the invisibility cloak.
For me, the best part of the book had to be the scenes with Dobby and his burial. I was very moved by those scenes which surprised me because Dobby was never a favorite character of mine.
I have loved the books until now. I have loved the mysteries within each and how each has built upon the other. I have developed great fondness for many of the characters. I just can’t believe this was then end…in more ways than one.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:58 pm
You. Guys.
I am so devestatedly elated right now.
I just finished.
Ohhhhh.
Off to live life again.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:09 pm
Constance- Thankyou so much! That cleared everything up!
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Just finished listening to the podcast. It was fun to hear someone else’s thoughts on DH- I haven’t had anyone I know finish it yet, so no one to talk to about it!
Penny, the scene on the front cover makes perfect sense if you look at which hand Harry is holding up- it’s his left! Harry is right- handed so HIS wand would be in that hand. He’s holding up his left hand to catch the Elder wand( which flew out of Voldy’s hand after he cast the AK spell at Harry) I think the artist used a bit of artistic license by leaving Harry’s wand hand empty, but I think that’s definitely what’s depicted here!
Great comments, by the way! I undrestand just how you felt when you finished, Penny. I stood in the bathroom alone for 10 minutes after I finished the book- I couldn’t decide whether to laugh or cry! (And I knew my husband would be asking me all about it as soon as I appeared!)
Yeah, the end WAS a bit cheesy, but highly satisfying as well!
Loved it!!!
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:29 pm
Suzanne: Do you mean Victoire was Bill and Fleur’s daughter? I assume that’s what the French name and cousin comment were meant to signal. It would be a little gross if Ted were kissing Tonk’s daughter (i.e., his sister).
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Great book overall, Kudos to JK Rowling.
I must confess I’m going to have an empty space when these podcasts are no longer.
I guessed the doe patronus was Severus’ when I read it the first time… it was touching.
A couple things I found myself questioning:
1. Hermione states shes never done memory modification when they’re in the diner after the attack, yet she altered her parent’s memory before they went to australia (they don’t even know they have a daughter)
2. How could Harry apparate without a license without setting off some alert? Didn’t they say in book 6 you weren’t allowed without passing a test? He turned 17 in hiding and there was a specific line talking about how Ron and Hermione were in the Kitchen at Grimmauld place when Harry almost fell off the step apparating in.
3. I had a bunch more as I was driving listening to your podcast, now they’re tucked back in my head… oh well… any advice on those two would be great for me.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Oh yeah,
What do you think about Mrs. Weasley offing Belatrix and not Neville?
Although it was great to read when Neville beheaded Nagini right in front of Voldemort!
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Things that were great about this book:
1.) The story in itself finally became the hero’s journey. Joseph Campbell should be smiling in his grave.
2.) Harry’s “power” the dark lord knows not can be interpreted many different ways: “love”, “the hallows”, & “the will to accept death”
3.) Loved that Dumbledore also desired to be immortal, and that even still after all his years and wisdom, he couldn’t resist the ressurrection stone.
4.) Also, there seems to be lots of confusion over the wand. Might I try to shed some light. According to Olivander, the owner of the Elder wand needn’t be killed in order for someone new to command it, only that the wand be “won” from that person. Since throughout history, the object desired moved the ones who sought it to kill, that is how it was taken most of the time. But we know that Dumbledore did not kill Grindenwald, but still he had won the Elder wand. The reason Draco was the true commander of the Elder wand was because he was the one who dissarmed Dumbledore on the moon-struck tower. He had at that moment become the owner of the Elder wand. After Harry defeats Draco, he becomes the new owner of the Elder wand, even though the wand wasn’t even there. It really was powerful magic that the wand knew who it’s new commander should be, Harry Potter.
5.) I loved the visual representation that JK used in the King’s Cross Scene. While Harry and Voldemort are able to be there together and whole, it seemed to me that only 1/8th of Voldemort was there. Perhaps this was what Dumbledore reffered to when he said there are things worse than death. Seems that JK is saying that a soul, not a mind or a body, are meant to live forever and Voldemort’s murders mean that he will never be able to truly live forever like the pure souls who have died.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:58 pm
All this talk about kissing and living happily ever after! Geez now I have to go find someone to give a hug too. Thanks a lot!
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:06 pm
did anybody notice dubledore has a scar with a map of kingscross station and that’s where they were. Does that mean he has spent alot of time there.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Raffy: Loved your comment about Hagrid’s reprieve. I wouldn’t have been able to kill him either. I do think that with him carrying the helpless Harry as he did in book 1, chapter 1, it made a nice circle to their relationship.
Fred’s death was terrible. I can’t stop thinking about George and how incomplete he will be until one of his kids or his wife become his sidekick. How lost George would be. Just terrible.
Voldy used AK because he knows of nothing worse than death. His fatal flaw.
Trace: I too was disappointed in the flow. Half way through the book I said “Hey, they haven’t destroyed a darn thing”. I agree with you that the Malfoy story was unsatisfying. I do think that Neville was done well. I, like you wish that Dumbledore’s past would have read less like a notebook and more like a story. It would have been great for Aberforth to be more developed.
Trace: Didn’t you think that the Centaur’s change of heart came out of nowhere? The Giants were a nonsequetor. I do think that the taking over of the Ministry is VERY common in a quick and unprotested fashion. It happened with the Nazis that way.
Constance: The eyes thing, your post made me cry!
Penny: I think Harry is throwing off the Invisibility Cloak with his left hand on the US cover.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Anonymous: Sorry, Ted was kissing Fleur’s daughter. My bad
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:15 pm
I’ve been reading HP for seven years. I got the book in the mail at two in the afternoon and finished at around ten or eleven. I really liked the whole thin, but the first is still myfavorite. I just can’t believe its over.
My favorite part fo the story was Snape’s memories. I figured that Dumbledore had asked Snape to kill him, but I never suspected that Snape loved Lily. He sort of reminds of Sydney Carton from Tale of Two Cities. Some of the details in these scenes were really nice–like for some reason I loved the fact that Lily called Snape “Sev,” and that in the fifth book when Petunia said she overheard “that horrible boy” telling Lily about the dementors, she was actually talking about Snape not James (at least I think). As previously stated, Snape seemed to make it pretty clear that he’s doing it all for Lily– you might have misread his response to DD’s question “After all these years have you finally grown to care for the boy?” Anyways, I don’t mind the way Snape died (though using the snake instead AK was a little contrived, as someone else said). Snape lived heroically, so he didn’t need to die heroically for redemption.
As for ‘borrowed elements,’ a great artist steals, as they say. Nothing in literature is truly original. Lord of the Rings merged the Christ-story with Wagner’s ring cycle, which had combined elements from Norse and Greek mythology. Literature is a living thing. Any good book alludes and builds off of history, religion, and other stories.
The epilogue felt a little lame. Except for Harry’s little exchange with Al and Malfoy’s ‘curt’ nod, it didn’t really give us anything. Plus I always thought that Harry would be the DaDA teacher (well, he still has time, of course).
Sorry this is kind of long, but I just have one more point, well, actually a question. It’s not really significant but I was wondering if you think Harry can still speak Parseltongue, now that Voldemort’s soul has been removed? (I think that he probably cannot).
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:23 pm
All of these ideas are brilliant everyone. Keep em coming!!!
I had one question that I forgot to mention in the podcast (ok, I had 100 of them, but whatever)- Helena Ravenclaw. Does this mean that Rowena Ravenclaw was already married when she founded Hogwarts? And if not, why was her daughter’s name ravenclaw?
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Oh yeah, another question.
I will reread this book of course, but did it say who the infant was in the Kings Crossing that kept distracting Harry while he was with Dumbledore? If it did I missed it.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:38 pm
William: I noticed the Hermione’s claim that she’d never done a Memory Charm before as well… I didn’t like it. Some people are explaining it away by saying that Hermione must have confunded her parents, rather than used the “Obliviate” spell, because she only modified the memories, not completely wiped them, and she said that she can lift the enchantment, whereas from what we’ve seen of Obliviate (Lockhart’s example) it’s permanent.
Also Harry became of age at the Burrow, the day before the wedding. and he used his first “legal” spell to summon his glasses or something like that, hehe. So he was able to apparate wihtout being detected? I’m not sure about the license though. Obviously he trained during the previous book, and apparated with Dumbledore, so he knew *how* to do it. But thereafter, he couldn’t take the test because the Ministry had fallen, and if he had gone to take his exam, he’d be caught by Death-Eaters. So I guess he is just apparating illegally without a license.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:43 pm
i think the epilogue leaves it wide open for another book and a whole new series about the Weasly, Potter and Malfoy children
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Hey everyone, love the podcast and the comments!
I was so grateful that the book was released 11.01 in the morning here in New Zealand, it gave me the time to read the book and then re-read the bits i love and the bits i didn’t understand without forcing myself to stay up all night. I, like everyone else, still have questions.
The epilouge was not at all what i had imagined. For some reason i had just assumed it would be a wedding because that would have brought many of the characters together and show their futures (for instance neville, luna and the other weasley’s)
Can anyone figure out what percy was doing in the epilouge? I assume he is working for hogwarts but doing what exactly?
I agree that some parts did seem to drag or rush by, in particular ron and hermione, after seven books of dancing around each other i thought there woud be more that four lines dedicated to there finally getting together. I agree though that the thing that made hermionie go for it, ron showing respect for house elves, was fitting.
One last thought, the seventh movie is going to be interesting!
JJ
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Constance,
Thanks for the Hermione confundus vs. obliviate… That sounds reasonable.
As for apparating, I guess there wasn’t any specific notification alerting the ministry if you did it without a license, so says the lexicon…
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:53 pm
I tried so hard not to just bomb through DH in a reading frenzy, but to no avail! What a good book. It definitely had some pacing issues, but I think the whole lost in the wilderness chapters were needed to push Ron into leaving, and then returning via the put-outer to help return Harry’s faith in Dumbledore. The single creepiest thing JKR has ever written was Nagini coming out of the old lady!!! Loved Wormtail’s demise, but I was so disappointed in the Malfoy plot. I don’t know how to feel about Kreacher’s turnabout. Why didn’t Voldy question the elf? Why didn’t anyone notice the locket he was wearing? Why wasn’t Kreacher released from servitude when Harry gave him the locket? That is awful darn close to clothes if you ask me. And how did he come to be back at Hogwarts, Harry never told him to return there, and wouldn’t have with Snape at the helm. The death that most surprised me was Hedwig. I half expected the poor owl to turn into a pheonix and burst into flame in the bottom of her cage. Finally, I really wish the epilogue had been about ten times as long, starting with Harry and little Teddy’s relationship. Oh come on J.K., we know you have more of this world in you.
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:12 pm
William:
I think the infant type creature in the Kings cross type place was supposed to be Voldemort because he was also knocked out when he tried to kill Harry.
Also I believe that Harry says something about knowing what Voldemort would end up like if he didn’t show some mercy.
That is just my humble opinion. I could be wrong.
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:33 pm
I think we’re going to do a whole episode on the King’s Cross chapter…there’s so much there. The way I understood it, the baby was Voldemort’s soul.
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:07 pm
I agree that it was voldemorts soul. As soon as I read that dubledore was there I thought of dumbledores scar on his knee. I wondered whether dumbledore had found his way out of that place before.
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:05 am
Raffy: I think that the reason Voldy used Nagini instead of AK on Snape was because he believed Snape to be the wand master, therefore he believed that he could not be defeated. Therefore he would have to use some other means than a spell.
I was kind of underwhelmed by the book too… except for Snape’s story which was tragic, brilliant.
I thought the whole hallows plot was completely unnecessary, we could have reached the same end without it, with Harry using love to kill Voldy, as we’ve all been theorizing for years now. Surely the horcrux plot was enough. The hallows also contributed to some of the weird pace issues in the story. But I completely agree with Penny that Harry’s choice between the Hallows and the horcruxes was the moment where he really became a man.
Dumbledore’s story was so horrible. I hated it. I want to always remember him the way we knew him, with no horrible demons in his closet.
I agree with those who said Aberforth was underdeveloped, and the same goes for Xenophilius I believe, I would have loved to have seen a bit more personality from him. They both had so much potential as characters.
Actually there were so many characters whom we have come to love dearly that I wanted to see more from. I can never get enough of Luna and Neville; I expected to see more of the Dursleys; Kreacher, who barely even rated a mention after he was so nicely redeemed at the beginning of the book; even everyone’s favourite DE: Bellatrix didn’t have a big a role as I would have liked. It just seemed as though she had done so much hard work in the previous books setting up these characters and there were so many golden opportunities for them to shine, but she forgot about them!
Overall, I think that Jo seemed to linger on the months the trio spent alone in Grimmauld Place and camping out around the countryside, but rushed the interactions with other characters, and the whole of the last battle at Hogwarts. But don’t get me wrong, I was still curled up in a ball sobbing for about half of the time it actually took me to read the book. It was wonderful, just not really what I hoped.
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:12 am
Enjoyable read. my head is still reeling from how infcredible wrong i was- about everything. I can’t recall ever being so inacurate. So instead i of petitioning for my free t-shirt, i am awaiting my download of the podcast to complete. write back soon.
July 23rd, 2007 at 2:59 am
I’m kind of speechless… I liked it… I was expecting to see Harry destroy the horcruxes but he only destroyed two of them: the diary and himself… Oh well it was a good ending…
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:10 am
I am so pleased I found this website, I read the book over the weekend but read so fast that I really dont think I took anything in, yes I got the general gist of the book but was so confused on so many points, reading here made me make so much more sense of it all - the wand bit really had me confused. I loved the book and the ending made me cry (in a good way) I think JKR could do all her fans a really big favour and write just one more book finishing off everyones life - let us know how everyone has fared 19 yrs on.
Thank you so much for everyones input - nice to know I am not the only nutter to sit up for hours reading this book
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:43 am
ok i think either Percy was a teacher, or headmaster?! thats the impression i got, that JK had just thrown in percy to fill the gap of teacher?. I got the impression that the epilogue had an alterior meaning of setting the characters to mabe another series, probably not another book. But we have written off other facts of the series, and i think another book may be written. I might be way off but o well.
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:45 am
a whole new series on Ted Lupin! he is rather similar to harry
July 23rd, 2007 at 6:01 am
first, I have to say, I love your podcast! so many thngs you say really open my eyes!
Now, the book was good, don’t get me wrong - my biggest issues with it though are these:
1. I was under the impression that JK was killing off 2 characters, and when Mad Eye and poor Hedwig went, I thought it was safe for the rest… there were actually 9 characters that I counted that died! What was with that?! Why did she specify a number then blow that number up?
2. The last chapter - There are just too many unanswered questions! WAY too many!
3. WHO discovered magic late in life? Dudley seemed to discover love, or at least respect, but not magic…???
July 23rd, 2007 at 6:23 am
My take on the small flailed baby-like creature was that it was the part of Voldemorts soul that had attached itself to Harry. Then I regarded it as perhaps Voldemort himself. It was shown that Voldemorte was recoverying from the spell much the same as Harry who was feigning death, but what most convinced me was Harry’s warning to him during the final showdown. About feeling remorse and having seen what he will become. In my minds eye I see much the same creature as what wormtail dropped in the cauldrin to reconstitute The Dark Lord. As Dumbledore told Harry,” You cannot help” “It is something beyond either of our help”. Ok I admit it. I read the book. Feeling such a flury of emotion was just unsettling. I am of the opion that the different writing styles and overload of the many events of which Trace Paper spoke was actually a tribute to all who loved and theorized about her books. I really think that JK Rowling meant this final book to be a thank you as well as an ending.
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:02 am
1 - AMAZING book — although at times I felt the fifth grade girl in me love it more than the logical adult I think that is how JKR writes — going back and forth between the perspective and style of an adult (all those curses..) and the innocence and hope filled view of a child..
2. I think the hardest death for me was Dobby — Greg I agree he embodied innocence and it was just hard to watch that be sacrificed — also — Colin Creevey what was the point of that????? (Dont get me started on Fred — I thought after the loss of George’s ear the twins were safe..)
3. I LOVED Snape’s redemption — I think its important that he still walked the line between be selfish and nasty and doing the right thing his character is a comment on the dueling forces of good and evil in all of us (I wish Sirius had more to say..)
4. As much as I hated it I think it was more important for Tonks and Lupin to die together — they represented the choices in life (esp. Tonks — who came AFTER her husband) I hated those deaths — it felt a little selfish to me but I don’t know I justified it somehow yesterday …
5. WHY DID SHE KILL HEDWIG?
6. I loved Hagrid carrying Harry out — I knew he was alive and the reactions of Hagrid, McGonagall, Ginny, Hermione and Ron were so well written…
7. LOVED the use of Tom Riddle instead of Voldemort — it showed Harry’s adulthood –
8. Great Podcast — loved it!!!!!
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:26 am
VM’s soul… makes sense.
Does anyone else hope Snape’s picture is hanging up in the Headmaster’s office? I don’t remember it mentioned when Harry dropped off the Elder Wand.
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:27 am
Aaron: I agree with your take on the baby/soul thing. At first I also thought it was the horcrux part of Voldie’s soul, but later on I think it’s clear that it is actually Voldemort’s soul. For some reason, killing the horcrux in Harry caused both Harry and Voldemort to enter the limbo/between state (which was actually in Harry’s mind…I’m telling you there’s a whole episode or two from this chapter).
I also definitely think there’s a connection between Voldemort’s soul in Kings Cross and what Wormtail put in the cauldron in Book 4 (our episode on the Wizard’s soul was basically right on this account).
I really like Aaron’s idea that the book was an amalgamation of theories from the fandom, as a way of JKR saying thank you. I also think that the nineteen year gap between the end and the epilogue is a gift to the fan fiction world, giving them a veritable playground in which to romp.
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:28 am
I want to do a whole episode on Expelliarmus, and why it’s Harry’s signature spell!
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:23 am
Guys, I’m listening to the podcast. Jo pretty much answered everything the past books brought up. HOWEVER the things she did mention in interviews (Ford Anglia, future Hogwarts Professor, etc) weren’t mentioned. So the books themselves explained pretty much everything. But what she promised us were… not really in there. Weird I know.
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:47 am
ALSO Penny, in regards to the DoM… I believe there are many various religious elements in this book. I think the absence of the veil and the DoM spoke more of it’s significance than what it would have done had we saw it. What they were studying down there was and still is very much a MYSTERY. These are questions us humans have in our world today. But we’ll never find them out alive. Death, live, time, space… all so intriguing. Not having Harry find out about their mysteries tells me that even those with magic can’t unlock God’s mysterious creations. That I think is what Jo is trying to emphasis there. Harry saw the door to the DoM and acknowledged that it was there. And I think Jo knows all that she has to know in regards to that place. But having Harry find out about the mysteries of death, etc for me would be SO tacky. We as humans don’t even know half of it all. Jo may have a good idea how the veil works but that’s really it.
And Greg did touch upon this but I think with the series (in regards to the Epilogue) Jo either wanted to leave the series to us, hence the very little information. She wanted the fan-ficers, wizards rockers, theorists, Podcasters, bloggers and artists to fill in those gaps with an ending they wanted.
That or she will release a short story like version of the epilogue, containing the necessary information. Most of the questions she brought about in her interviews could easily be explained in the epilogue. No doubt she knows them… just didn’t want to put them in her version of how the series ends.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:42 am
What about Jo’s nod to the podcasting world? …Potter Watch - Nice.
I have thoroughly enjoyed all of the podcasts. Thank you Greg & Penny. My son and I listen to the podcast together, he’s on page 265 - so he’ll have to wait just a bit to hear your latest episode.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:49 am
I just finished listening to Jim Dales reading of the book, IT WAS GREAT!!!!! I listened for 21 hours streight! I turned out to be right when I said Dumbledore didn’t have long to live anyway. What did every think about Dumbledores past?
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:08 am
I don’t believe Mad Eye is dead. My reasoning is this; when Dumbledore put the Full Body Bind on Harry when they were on top of the astronomy tower in HBP is was lifted the second Dumbledore was killed. So if Moody really was dead then how did his protective spells on #12 Grimaulde Place still work after he was dead? They should have been lifted the second he died because a spell cant work after the caster is dead, right?
Also, I loved the book, but I think J.K. leaned too heavily on things she created in previous books. I understand that she probably didn’t want to introduce too many new things in the last book, but she could have had them learn some new spells. Instead all she did was have them use Pollyjuice Potion, the invisibilty cloak, and disapperation too much. Thats really my only cualm with the book.
P.S. LOVED the final battle scene.
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:15 am
Just a whatif:
When I read that Voldemort had Nagini kill Snape, I thought that the ownership of the Elder Wand was going to go to the Snake. THEN, when Neville killed Nagini, I got so excited to think that Neville would be the one to off Voldemort… making BOTH Neville and Harry become the threat they were both possibly destined for…
or another whatif, same event:
If Voldemort expected the possession of the wand to be his after Nagini did his bidding (kill Snape), why then wouldn’t he expect the possession of the wand to be his after Draco or Snape did it (killed Dumbledore?)
lastly,
Harry dropped the stone (the ring) in the forbidden forest. With as many times Accio was used in book seven, wouldn’t it be reasonable to think they could just accio the stone? They couldn’t with the ring as a horcrux because of its enchantments. That being said, the stone only worked if you turned it over 3 times, not if you wore it as a ring (which I feel it was made into later (would engraving the stone be detrimental to its efficacy?)), so WHAT was Dumbledore thinking in HBP when he put the “effin” thing on?
The scar may not have hurt in the future 19 years, but Scorpio’s gonna find that ring, kill Harry to get the Cloak and go get the wand in the Headmaster’s office… Dum Dum Dum DUM!!!!
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:20 am
Great podcast guys! I agreed with everything y’all said!
Did anyone else think that Ginny would have a lot more significance in this book? I mean Luna got more facetime than she did near the end! I thought she would have at least been able to fight more, but everyone was trying to keep her in the Room of Requirement!
Also, why did Fred die and not George? I thought it would be both of them or neither????
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:23 am
Nobody has commented at all about the two excerps at the beginning before the book even started. When I read those, I thought for sure Harry was going to die. The first passage was from “The Libation Bearers” by the greek tragedy writer Aeschylus, the second was from William Penn (can’t remember the book at the moment). Did anyone else read these poems/excerps? What was your reaction upon reading them?
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:26 am
Penny: Perhaps “Ravenclaw” was her middle name and she just went by it.
William: The skinless baby-like creature was the bit of Voledemort’s soul that was in Harry. That was the part that died when Harry was hit with AK in the forest.
Tash: The Hallows plot was weaker than it needed to be. Dumbledore had been pursuing immortality for decades with Nicholas Flammel and with Grindelwald. I think she (Rowling) could have emphasized that more. It would have been nice if the little wizard, Kevin had been read the story of the Deathly Hallows in book 4. She could have done more to foreshadow it.
Aaron: The baby was Voldemort, but not all of him. Only Voldemort had the chance to save his own soul, even after he had mutilated it. He needed the oldest magic of love and true repentance to save himself. He refused and then destroyed himself.
Percy was the prodigal son (git)
Meg: Saint Hedwig is the protector of children. Killing her off was necessary because Harry was no longer a child.
William: Don’t you wish we found out how moving portraits are painted? Dean Thomas is good at drawing. I figured he’d do the portrait of Dumbledore. I figured we’d hear a bit about that. Any thoughts? Yes, Snape’s picture must be in the Head’s office.
Greg: The “expelliarmus” idea is a great one. Also understand that the book “Wicked” is fan fiction, it’s just good literature. Rowling is opening up a playground for future writers. Period
Everyone: Am I alone in wishing that her notebooks of doodles that outlined the 7 books before she started book 1 should be published? I’d wait at midnight for that!
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:26 am
Ginny had enough face time. I liked her in this book. And she played a role. SOMEONE was going to miss out on some portion of the action. I’d rather it be Ginny than Luna. Luna=AWESOME!
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:27 am
The William Penn book is “More Fruits of Solitude”.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:07 am
Ok, last one.
If Harry’s cloak was impenetrable to curses, blocking a stupefy curse (i think) in DH, how was Dumbledore able to use petrificus totalus on Harry in the tower in HBP?
Small detail, but the same kind of detail as Kyle pointed out.
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Suzanne-
I like that — She was one of Harry’s last ties to childhood that wouldnt grow up with him..
although.. i love Hedwig
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:19 pm
I really liked it, it might even end up as my favorite book, but…
1. What happened to Luna and all of the others that had been part of Hogwarts 19 years later?
2. What did they do with Voldemort’s body? I’d like to think they cremated him and scattered his ashes over the ocean so her would have no resting place or shrine (like Eichmann).
3. I don’t think it would have been so bad to tell us what kind of work the characters were doing after 19 years.
4. I thought after Voldemort died his body would morph into a very old Tom Riddle, ala Dorian Gray.
5. The whole wand explanation was unclear, but then this is nothing new in these books. Other stuff, i.e. the whole “your heart saved you” thing, was unclear in past books.
6. I agree with whomever it was who commented on the weakness of Voldemort’s final spells. There could have been more examples.
7. What was with the whole “Snape needs to die” situation? An anti-climax above all others. She had them go to the Shrieking Shack for this, so she could get the Whomping Willow into the story?
8. Harry should have sought out Ginny at the end. Doesn’t the hero always want the girl when he’s won? “Adrianne, Adrianne!” etc.
9. I thought there would be more revenge on Umbridge. Stick her permanently to a tree in the forbidden Forest, or something.
10. Did none of the teachers have any children, spouses, etc.?
11. What happened to Fawkes? I thought he would have turned up somewhere.
If one is going to tie up loose ends, make sure there are no threads hanging!
Believe me, I really did like it very much!
I’m a long-time podcast listener; this is my first comment. I’m also presenting at Prophecy 2007 and I hope to meet you both!
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:25 pm
William: Loved your whatif about Neville and Harry. Very nice. Funny prophecy about Scorpio!
Meg: I miss Hedwig too. I love my pets, they bring me mice too!
William: Perhaps as a Hallow, the cloak is impervious to hostile curses. The body bind was put on Harry to protect him. I’m curious about Moody’s eye. It can see through anything. Who made it? How? Out of what?
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:35 pm
I did like the book, but there were a few gaping holes in the plot line. For example, when Harry gets hit with Avada Kedavera, why does he get sent to King’s Cross of all places? I mean, that’s just completely weird. And why did Lupin and Tonks have to die? I mean, they had just gotten married and had just had Teddy, and now they have to go and die?! And the ending was sooo unoriginal! It was like stepping into another fan fiction! It kind of makes me mad…and I wish JK would have made the epilogue a bit more unique. Perhaps she read a bunch of fan fictions and decided that it was the only way that it would wrap up…but still, it was horrible. And Harry…he didn’t really have to USE the Deathly Hallows to kill Voldemort, did he? He beat him with his own wand, he uses the Invisibility Cloak all the time, and the Ressurection Stone is hardly mentioned. So why is the book called “The Deathly Hallows” when that isn’t even the main focus of the book?
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:40 pm
First of All….Dobby Rocks!!!!
Greg: Expelliarmus (sp?) is a great spell because it disarms the opponent. No wand = no defense. It seems so simple but so effective! Plus it seems to me that even novice wizards/witches use it early. I wonder why it can’t be used without speaking it……….? “Speaking” of which, Harry still never mastered silent spells, which is what Snape really pointed out in the last chapter of HBP but JK never revisited.
Kyle: There is something to do with the secret keeper of 12 Grimauld place. I think the Order of the Phoenix members (other than Mad Eye) placed protections on the place, but no one but those who knew the secret could find the place. James and Lily (and baby Harry) were safe from Voldy up until Wormtail gave up the secret. That was the only way he could find them. So, the building was not “visible” even without the protections of Mad Eye, because the secret was not shared (even by Snape). Thoughts?
William: Voldy didn’t know about the elder wand in HBP; so he couldn’t have assumed by sending Draco or Snape to kill Dumbledore that he would possess it.
Everyone: Does anyone else connect the scene of Harry and Dumbledore in Kings Crossing with the Neo scene in the train station in the last Matrix movie? Or how about Harry and the ghosts walking into the woods to sacrifice himself with the scene of the Lion and the girls walking through the woods to see the Witch and the evil army (Lion, Witch, Wardrobe)? I know…Jesus in the garden with the romans…..but, just wondering if anyone else “Mentally” made those connections.
Greg/Penny: Any virtual acknowledgements for correct Pronostications from your fans? Maybe free bumperstickers?
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Eric: “The Half Blood Prince” was never the main focus of that book either. It could have been named “Harry Potter and the Horacruxes” or whatever.
I just want to say really quick that people sometimes expect perfection. That really can be an unreasonable expectation. To tie every single loophole possible is unrealistic, as she (JK) is only one person (with a production team of course), and we as a whole (as fans) number in the Millions. Even if she did cover every single loose end, created new spells for Harry to use, and told the story of all the survivors and their occupations, someone would still complain about something (i.e. The book is too long!). The book, as imperfect as it is, is brilliant.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Of course, the book is brilliant. And also, it made me sort of uneasy that it didn’t go in the way as the other books. And time went by too fast. Once minute, it’s Spetember, and then ten pages later, it’s the Christmas holidays! Although, now that I think about it, if she put more detail, it would really make the book boring. Also, SnapexLily, best friends?! Highly unlikely, in my opinion. What reason could they possibly have to be best friends?! And Petunia…that made me laugh when I found out she knew Snape.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:11 pm
I too had mixed feelings after finishing the book, cried my eyes out yes but my overall reaction was that this was my favorite of the seven books even though I did find it to be a bit flawed, but then wasn’t that the message Jo was trying to send us with Dumbledore’s story that nothing is ever perfect?
The epilogue left me a little cold (i.e. would have like to read more on what happened to everyone else and what Harry, Ginny, Ron and Hermione finally grew up to become) but I was glad that they all ended up with each other and happy.
Snape’s story and death was beautifully tragic (if that makes sense), and I can’t help but think of the prophecy and the line “neither can live while the other survives…” Snape had to die, what else would have been a fitting ending…spending the rest of days in Azkaban or in hiding somewhere? I would have been very disappointed if that had happened. As far as Voldy using Nagini to kill Snape, well, I’m thinking it was necessary. He could not have left himself vulnerable if his Avada kedavra didn’t work and he was left standing in front of one of Hogwart’s most brilliant potions masters and (although he never filled the position) Defense against the Dark Arts teacher.
Anyway, love your podcast and look forward to listening to many future episodes, perhaps you would consider extending it to other books besides the HP series. One can only hope.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Hey guys! Awesome, awesome podcast. I really had a lot of the same feelings as you all did about the book. I loved it, but it did leave me with a few questions that I was certain would be answered.
But I thought it was awesome, and I really like getting to find out about people’s backgrounds in this one. And who would have thought that “that boy” that Aunt Petunia referred to in Book 5 was Snape? But I did agree about his death… it was very anticlimactic, and against Voldemort’s norm.
I also agree that you guys need to do a podcast on wands, because some of that technical stuff about the elder wand still confuses me, which is why I’m reading the book again!
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:16 pm
I, personally, didn’t think that she needed and epilogue. But, seeing as she had a prologue, where it all began, I’m guessing it was expected. But I think the epilogue was just cheezy, boring and unoriginal. I really think she could have done without it. And she didn’t mention anything about the other Weasleys, about Bill and Fleur or anything like that!
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:19 pm
I was a bit disappointed in the book myself, esp. the epilouge. I was really upset that Ron was able to imitate the parseltougne, though it is supposed to be the rarest language, only spoke by a very small number of Dark Wizards (and Harry). And I’m assuming that Ron probably only heard Harry speak parseltougne twice, in COS and DH. It really bothered me.
And did anyone else wonder why Snape didn’t fall out of love with Lily Potter after leaving Hogwarts? She got married and had a child. He was presented with other women, from what it said in the book, why were none of those women good enough for him? Were Harry’s eyes the reason he stayed in love with her?
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:25 pm
I think it was because that Snape was treated good by Lily. That is the reason why he loved her. And also, he was loyal to Dumbeldore to the very end. I think his loyalty to Dumbeldore and his love for Lily give the same moral. If people treat you nicely, you’re obidient to them, or in debt to them in some way. Lily Potter affects the lives of the people she’s with, because she’s an amazing person. There is no other possible answer, other than the fact that Lily was just hot, but we don’t know what she looked like as a kid, do we? In fact, we only see her in the books about three times: In the Mirror of Erised, in the Pensive and at the end of the 7th book. So I think that my theory is a lot more easy to believe. That if you’re nice to other people, they are generally nicer to you than to people who aren’t nice to them, which also brings up the Kreacher/Sirius matter.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:53 pm
I would like to open the discussion of Lord of the Rings similarities. Clearly the ‘weight’ of the horcrux was the same as the ring. Any other thoughts?
July 23rd, 2007 at 2:05 pm
I think so. When wearing the ring, you act differently, as though you can’t live without it. The locket makes you think things that you normally wouldn’t think, and once you have it on for a long period of time, it makes it harder to get off, exactly like the ring. Gusty, you do have a point.
July 23rd, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Ken: I’m familiar with Aeschylus, not with the other quote. I was hoping to do an episode on those two quotes as well.
Suzanne: Good point about “Wicked,” that’s hopefully what we’ll see more of!
I don’t want to go too much into it, but expelliarmus is a way of besting your opponent by taking away their power, as opposed to avada kedabra which is simply exerting your power over them…
July 23rd, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Check out this ridiculous video featuring fans waiting in-line this weekend to pick up the latest installment:
http://www.maximonline.com/video/index.aspx?filekey=3054&src=tst25
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Wow, I finally finished and I truly loved it, although it is tossling with POA for my favourite book.
Snape - I loved the whole Snape storyline, I knew he loved Lily and the “Look at me” was so poignant, he died looking into her eyes. I also believe he truly liked Harry, but he had to make Harry hate him because of his closeness to VM. I also think it was fitting that he die differently at VM hands, but I do agree with you guys that it seemed a little flat. Can’t wait to see Alan Rickman and Dan Radcliffe in that scene.
Deaths - The hardest one for me was Hedwig, probably because it was so early on, I like what Suzanne said above about Saint Hedwig because she died as he came of age.
Moody was needed, it would’ve seemed a little to easy if they all escaped unharmed with that many death eaters.
Dobby was sad but the worst part for me was Harry digging the grave, true Harry style.
By the time Fred came about I was so wrapped up in all the action it kind of just washed over me, same with Lupin and Tonks. As soon as Lupin asked Harry to be “godfather” they were earmarked to die, mirror Harry and Teddy. I also think a Weasley had to die for Ron and the others to understand what it felt like to lose one you love.
Penny I agree about the slowness of the book at the beginning but I believe JK was very clever as we felt Harry, Ron and Hermione’s frustration that they were getting nowhere. Who was shocked when Ron left? I was like what!! he can’t leave.
Still confused about the wands but I will now go back and re read slower and hopefully pick up more info, if not you guys will help me out.
I had to laugh when I read the part of Harry being Naked - I wondered if JK had an Equus moment and was thinking of Dan Radcliffe doing the scene in the movie.
I didn’t want to believe that Harry was a horcrux theory because I couldn’t see how he would come out of it alive and have it believable. I like the way JK did it and how Harry had an option to go back. Because after all of his wanting his parents and sirius he chose those he loved who were alive.
I wanted to see more Ginny, I don’t know why but her name just kept popping up but she really had little to do. Loved Mrs Weasley, that line was perfect.
I cried during the bit with the resurrection stone and James, Lily and Sirius.
I also believe she has left it wide open to write another book if she decides to in the future, either in the 19 missing years or one starting with the children at hogwarts.
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Reading everyones comments is just thrilling to me. To keep with tradition I still don’t agree with doasis. I don’t think her theories were so far off. If Snape’s only motivation was his feelings for Lily then much of what she said about him being out for himself is very true. Dumbledore agreeing to hide the best part of Snape extc. Wands did play a key role in the plot. Harry did die in a way. I still feel that Snape is the most profound of all the characters. So many facets to explore. I still feel you earned the T-shirt.
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:32 pm
I feel that everyone really has a lot of good things to say about The Deathly Hallows. I’m not even remotely as in depth as any of you(nor did I get a special t-shit…ha ha), nor am I as experienced in coming up with theories. But you guys are what really make this podcast cool. Greg and Penny, I admire both of you. You really get people’s minds working. You help them look at Harry Potter in a way that they’ve never looked at it before, it has sure helped me. Not only do I read the book, I actually apply what I’ve read to other books. I never did that before, you guys changed everything. You are probably the reason I do much more reading.
July 23rd, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Hi guys!
First of all, Penny, you made me start crying when you were kind of choking up at the beginning of the show…thanks! lol. I’m so sad that it’s over but I loved the book. It was so exciting and tragic and funny - overall very satisfying.
Some things I really loved:
-All the scary parts and wondering how they’re going to get out of the mess they’re in now
-The whole Dobby death. (Greg, I cried hard during that part) The fact that Harry dug the grave without magic I thought was him symbollically trying to repay all of the service Dobby had given him.
-Luna’s bedroom with her friends’ portraits made me totally love her.
-The silver doe scene was beautiful and it never even occured to me that it was Snape’s.
-Neville being a total badass!
-Hermione and Ron kiss for the same reasons you liked it. And Harry standing there saying “really, is this the time?”
-Snape wanting to look into Harry’s (i.e. Lilly’s) eyes as he died.
-The whole pensieve chapter. Snape’s worst memory wasn’t the worst because he was humiliated but that he called Lilly a mudblood and drove her away. I think Jo should have told WB to keep that part in the OoTP movie btw.
-Oh! the fact that I was so sure all along Snape would be good but then was really doubting it as I read the book so she managed to fool me anyways.
-Harry showing Tom what it really means to be a great wizard!
-Harry being a horcrux because I had been saying he was and everyone has been disagreeing. In your face! lol
-The whole thing about Harry’s sacrifice protecting everyone because that was your theory and I thought of you guys when I read it.
-The epilogue. Yeah, it was cheesy but it was sweet and good. I don’t care if it didn’t fill in all the details but I loved that we saw Harry having a family and being peaceful and happy like he deserves. And being able to be there for his son and reassure him as he left to school as he never had.
When he told them about his severus, I bawled.
That’s all I can think of for now.
About the godfather thing: Why does everyone think being godparent means you get custody of the kid if the parent dies? It doesn’t. A godparent is someone who’s supposed to be in charge of the kid’s spiritual upbringing. Of course Ted would go to his grandmother and the same would be here in the U.S. If parents die, the courts would look first to the next of kin. They wouldn’t ask “Who are the godparents?” Being a godparent has no legal weight at all.
Anyways, loved the show. Please talk some more about it soon!
July 23rd, 2007 at 4:17 pm
I’m back again, things keep popping into my head.
Snape again - his patronus was so perfect, I alway’s imagined something dark like a bat or something but to have something so innocent as a Doe shows his loyalty through and through and the fact that it was Lily’s was even more moving. I did think when the doe was in the forest that it was Lily because of James being the Stag, so even though Snape knew about James and the stag he still chose the same as Lily. Sweet. Also the fact that Harry named one of his children after him meant he understood and forgave him.
I also think for a bit JK was mirroring Snape with Draco, esp when Lily was warning him about his friends. But wasn’t it great in the end that Draco and the Malfoy’s end up with nothing after having everything and Harry ends up with everything when he had nothing.
I also wondered about Grimmauld Place, do you think Harry ever went back there? Is that where he is raising his kids with Ginny? Because we see Kreacher reappear after thinking he had been lost.
I loved Kreacher in this book, he turned into Dobby a little bit. As soon as Harry gave him the locket, I felt the darkness lift from Grimmauld place.
Neville - How cool was he? I don’t think he ended up with Luna, as there was a little bit where Luna reached for Dean’s hand and I thought oh they got together. Him pulling the sword from the hat was so cool, it turn out in some ways that the he fulfilled something from the prophecy. Did that mean that Griphook never truly owned the sword because of the way he got it?
I also thought that this book was great because in all the other books Harry seemed so alone, but this one he always had someone with him and at the end when everyone came together to help him even though they were going to their deaths in a sense, I could just see Harry’s heart filling on the pages.
I really hope when they adapt this one to film that they don’t leave anything out, I don’t think you can. Everything served a purpose.
And who didn’t cry when Hagrid carried Harry out of the forest and heard McGonagall scream. The more I think about it the better the book gets.
July 23rd, 2007 at 4:42 pm
I have more….
Just reading the other comments, I too thought LOTR with the locket and thought Ron had his Samwise moment with saving Harry and getting the sword, but the more I think about it the more JK had to go there. The locket contained a piece of soul, evil soul and how else could she set it apart from the other locket but to show how it could possess those that wore it. I did like the scene that Ron saw with Harry and Hermione and thought yay all the H/Hr shippers will get their moment. Not sure why Harry didn’t just put it in the moleskine bag especially since so much was said about it.
I did laugh at Hermione’s beaded bag, everytime Jk needed them to have something or take something it went into the bag, I imagined it a lot bigger until JK said Hermione had tucked it into her sock to protect it when they were captured.
Sorry to go on, but no one I know has read the book and even if they had they wouldn’t theorise about it.
July 23rd, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Oh and fitting too that Crabbe or was it Goyle? should destroy a horcrux when their parents were Death eaters and how Harry and Ron saved Draco twice, not the bully he made out to be. A bit like Dudley at the beginning. Liked how in the end Harry really did have some family.
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:01 pm
to eric o. about kindness breeding kindness, I agree that this certainly enhanced Snape’s feelings for Lily but I sort of think that Snape fell in love with Lily even before he talked to her.
That first scene was so cute–little ‘Sev’ trying to impress Lily but only offending her. It sort of connects to the scene when he calls her a mudblood. Snape wasn’t exactly trying to ‘impress’ her, but he was attempting to perserve his image as ‘masculine’ or ‘indepedent’ or whatever, but just upsets her (now by implying impure magical power, instead of possession of magical power). Snape desire to cover up his weaknesses is the main flaw that strangles his relationship with Lily. There’ll be an episode on Snape I hope?
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:08 pm
oh yes, please an episode on Snape would be lovely!
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Just a thought — am I the only one who was a little freaked out by the look at me part?
oh and everyone who was bothered by the epiloge - I wanted to hear in more detail about everyone else and what’s with Ron not naming his son after Fred? Hugo? whats that about –
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:42 pm
O.K. here is a couple of Post book seven prognostications:
1) Harry becomes a world famous Auror (who would deny him, even with the results of his OWLs?); He is joined by Ron and Hermoine (Remember: The Ministry of Magic is now being run by a member of the Order of the Phoenix)!
2) McGonagal resumed the postion of Hogwarts Headmistress,
3) Snape’s Picture is in her office (see the end of “Return of the Jedi”)
4) The ring is found by Hagrid who places it in the bottom of the cave he and his brother stayed in; He marries and has Giant children with Madame Olympe Maxime.
5) Luna hooks up with Dean; they are both become teachers at the school.
6) Harry erects a statue of Dobby near the Gryffindor common room. The statue speaks on occasion.
7) JK writes at least 3 books concerning the capture and death of the werewolf Fenrir Greyback. (He was captured but not killed; he escapes and continues to kill children).
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Obviously George has a set of twins named Fred and George Jr. What other explaination could there be? Besides it would serve him right.
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:55 pm
I just thought i would bring this up. When Petunia says “and when that horrid boy cam aroun and told Lily about te dementors” COuld he have been refering to Snape?
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Amy: I like the Eichman reference for V’s body. I’d feed it to the giand squid. Also, bear in mind that this isn’t Disney. J.K. Rowling didn’t have the “kiss” at the end. She found Love more important than a kiss.
Eric: I think Tonks and Lupin died so that we could understand the tragedy of Lily and James. We really got to love these characters, not for who they produced as offspring, but who they were as people.
Deb: I think it would have been nice if Ted Lupin was looking through a photo album. He could have described Ginny and Harry’s wedding, Ron and Hermione’s holiday parties, his upbringing with the Potters as their son,etc.
Hannah: Snape’s love was beyond sexual. He loved her before puberty. His love was not primarily sexual in nature. It was simply Love. The same Love that Dumbledore had for Harry and that friends have for one another.
Gusty: There are definite similarities between the ring and the horcrux. Remember the epitaph “Where your heart is, there will your treasure be”. (Ariana’s grave on page 325) There is also the invisibility that the “Ring” provided. Definite similarities. Don’t you think that both books stress the importance of your surroundings? If you surround yourself with certain things and people, they will inevitably influence you. Some people are more strong, but it will still hurt them. Drugs, riches, fame, etc.
Andy: Lol, I think there was an equus moment with his naked (fine) body on a polished floor in a heavenly realm. I may write some fan fiction erotica from that tidbit!
I think Harry and Ginny fixed up Grimmauld place like George Baily did in “It’s a Wonderful Life”.
Andy: Yes! The Samwise bit when he left then came back! Perfect!
I think the “sword” cannot be owned. It’s the sword of righteousness in a way. You put it on like the breastplate of faith, etc. There’s a whole biblical passage about the armour of faith.
Kimba: I loved Luna’s bedroom too. Choked me up! As for the godfather thing, it is an ancient binding thing. In old Christianity a godbrother or sister was considered as close as your blood brother or sister. Godparents DID raise orphans. Blood was not thicker than love.
Everyone: Wouldn’t you have liked to see Harry come into the tent from a watch to find Hermione and Ron sleeping in one anothers’ arms?
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Suzanne - glad someone else was thinking like me, Dan has a couple of years to polish off that body of his and he will get a whole new world of “fangirl”
I also wanted Ron and Hermione in each other arms, at least he bit with them at the end made up for it all. Just loved Harry “Do you think this is the time?”
Also loved Ginny when Harry asked Cho about the Ravenclaw common room and she said she would go with him, and Ginny said “No, Luna will”
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:41 pm
I LOVED THE EPOLOGE SORRY ABOUT THE CAPITALS ONLY THING BUT I CAN’T GET OFF IT.
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Ok thats better.
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Eric: So why is the book called “The Deathly Hallows” when that isn’t even the main focus of the book?
Well, let’s see, when was there something in the title that actually was the main focus of the book? Was the Goblet of Fire the significant plot-line? And the Order of the Phoenix? Maybe Prisoner of Azkaban? I don’t see why people expected this title to be any different.
I expected it to be a subplot, but not the main thing and I was right 
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Can anyone even SEE my posts?
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Just can’t stop thinking about Snape wanting to see Lily’s eyes as his last earthly view.
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Suzanne, beautiful wasn’t it. I love Snape now, I didn’t mind him before but he was totally become a hero in my eyes.
I thought it was funny that they should use that line “Look at me” as I saw the film on Sunday and “Look at me” is again used between Harry and Dumbledore.
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:47 pm
loved the book but it was sad..i cried when it was done..and im still crying
..wish there was more
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:49 pm
Sure I read your post Cricketoh! With everyones excitement please don’t feel jilted. Silence usually means everyone agrees with what you say. Unless your me of course then you are ignored much like the warnings on matress labels. In your case it is surely the first.
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:54 pm
I was a little sad at the end of the book. Then I thought of Harry looking into the mirror to see his deepest desire. After all the adventures and perils he finally got what he wanted most.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:28 pm
I am not sure about Luna and Dean-
I kinda feel like as Harry Potter fans their is this little fifth grade girl in all of us who wants everybody to be happy and in love and dancing in a field of wild flowers while Kreatcher plays the violin. or maybe the lute..nobody plays the lute anymore
Sly Onion - She was talking about Snape…
I loved that what we found out about Lily is that Snape was her BFF …
although I still would like to know what occupations all these people had..
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:37 pm
The only thing I could think of regarding Ron and Hermione’s choice of names was that they named the boy an “H” name and the girl an “R” name (reverse from “R”on and “H”ermione). Oh, and that Rosie was Sam Gamgee’s wife in LOTR.
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:39 pm
I was dissapointed when I finished the book. Not about the book but about the fact that it was over. So right now all thats on my mind is Harry Potter. I am glad though that it explained EVERYTHING. I am very happy. There are really no open ends (to the main storyline anyway).
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:50 pm
I have been reading my copy of Twelve Fail-Safe Ways to Charm Witches. Hasn’t worked yet but the pictures are interesting.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Aaron, as a witch im guessing that book was written by a wizard, which means you could read every word a dozen times and still be clueless!! lol
Just one thought that keeps popping into my head, does anyone think the epilouge will be included in the 7th movie? I think it could be something they seriously alter or leave out all together. Not that i thought it was bad, i just think its something they’d cut
July 24th, 2007 at 12:55 am
hey another good example of voldermorts spells not working properly is when he put a full body bind on neville but then it suddenly left and neville cut the snakes head off…i think thats what harry was refering to when he said that voldermorts spells were not binding…they would work but not to their greatest effect? iono
but i loved the book…i agree with penny that the epilogue was cheezy but it was good to have it…it gave close to the book…
I dont know what im going to do after the movies are done…the legacy will have ended totally…how sad…i guess im just going to have to marry emma watson. hahahahaa
July 24th, 2007 at 12:58 am
oh and also i still havent figured out who did magic later in life…was there something about Mr. Filch that maybe we passed up? idont know its boggled my mind for a couple of days now
July 24th, 2007 at 2:23 am
It has been forever since I last posted on these blogs, but, as soon as I finished my book I had to come and read all that was going on in here!
All of your posts are so awesome, the very reason I love this blog! I was totally flumoxed at the Harry/Horcrux bit, even though it had been so heavily expanded and theorized about on this blog site, I just refused to believe that Harry would die, but Greg, I must admit you were so dead on the Harry /Savior theory. I haven’t finished listening to the entire podcast, but felt a need to post when you made the comment on not seeing how Harry’s sacrifice had worked in protecting everyone else, (I might be proven wrong in the rest of the podcast but here it goes anyway)
Chapter 36:p.p. 738-739: “You won’t be killing anyone else tonight,” said Harry…”You won’t be able to kill any of them ever again. Don’t you get it?..I’ve done what my mother did. They’re protected from you. Haven’t you noticed how none of the spells you put on them are binding? (Harry’s Cruciatus after resurrection, Neville’s body bind curse, the silencing charms on the crowd, the duels inside the Hall). You can’t torture them. You can’t touch them.”
I must admit, I cried almost every 10 or so pages..LOL!!!
When Dudley hesitates upon their final good-byes, when Hedwig was killed, and on and on… when Ron returns, by the way, I too knew it was Snape’s patronus, the Doe I mean, I knew it was he who had left the sword there as soon as I read it! Even though at first my confidence in his innocense began to falter, I knew there had to be a good explanation, I knew he was on the good side. Sure, he has his dark side too, don’t we all? But it is the choices he had made and stuck valiantly by that defined who he was; I loved Harry’s words about him in the epilogue, he respectfully paid homage to a man who had paid for his mistakes quite dearly, and had therefore earned his place among the valiant dead.
I loved the part when he tells Harry to look at him, I let out a wail and my husband said: who died now? What a Gone with the Wind -”But when you’re gone, where shall I go, what shall I do?” Scarlet moment!!!! Oh Geez… I loved it!!!! That there was the whole point of Harry having ‘Lilly’s eyes’.
I stretched out the reading of the book instead of my usual reading marathons because I did not want to arrive at the end. I have sustained my share of derision and criticism becuase of my intense affinity to this series, but here, I am proud and unafraid to confess how much I love and deeply enjoy reading these books, watching each of the movies, and reading and listening to HP Progs!!! By the way, I laughed when I first read about the radio show “Potterwatch”, it was such a shout out to all of you guys!!!
I too can’t wai for the movie version, I hope they keep the naked Harry part in there!! After all those Equus pics, I’d love to see Dan like that on the IMAX screen!!! (I won’t be taking my two daughters though!!!)
Many happy blogging everyone!!!
Gregg and Penny, Thanks!!!!
July 24th, 2007 at 2:34 am
I am meant to be doing work but I can’t get the book out of my mind. Can someone answer something for me? Why did JK put in the whole argument between Lupin and Harry? didn’t we go through the whole Lupin/Tonks angst in HBP and I thought by the end they had worked it all out. To rehash it all again, I just can’t get my head around why it was so necessary, especially since he and Tonks died later on.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:28 am
Meg: Naw, I think Kreacher and Winkie could have a May/December love affair and have their first child named Dobby!
Greg: I think Rose is both a nod to Lord of the Rings and a red-headed flower with thorns, just like Mrs. Weasley!
Aaron: Keep trying! Just give them sincere compliments!
Andy: What argument between Lupin and Harry? I forget
July 24th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Okay okay okay…
Per DH, Voldemort acted alone October 31, 1981. The night he killed James and Lily. His soul was inadvertantly cast into Harry.
so…
WHO CAME INTO POSSESSION OF HIS WAND!?!?!?
How did it get from Godric’s Hollow back to Voldemort?
Greg and Penny discussed this in an early podcast and it was concluded that someone had to be there…
Nobody get me wrong. I thoroughly enjoyed the book… I just really enjoy reading the thoughts of others on these topics.
and, I maintian, beware Scorpio Malfoy… accio ring…
July 24th, 2007 at 11:00 am
In “Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows”, a new character named Xenophilius Lovegood makes an interesting statement when referring to both the falliability and resilience of fairy tales when asked to comment on one example, “The Tale of the Three Brothers”, a story with far-reaching consequences for Harry : “That is a children’s tale, told to amuse, rather than to instruct. Those of us that understand these matters, however, recognize that the ancient story refers to three objects, or Hallows, which, if united, will make the posessor master of Death”. Rowling posits a similar challenge to the the reader to question their own stance on our individual choices within the context of the story that unfolds and the decisions that need to me made.
This passage crystalizes for me why JK Rowling’s Harry Potter series is such a masterpiece. Rowling manages to both entertain and weave layers of meaning for her readers in this final book, if you are willing to look CLOSER… I have just finished reading the book and I am overwhelmed with the story that has finally unfolded in front of me. This was one heck of an epic showdown and I feel priviledged that I got to see the definitive end to the story of Harry Potter. What may have started out as a simpler children’s tale has blossomed to one hell of a story that manages to tackle a lot of the bigger questions in breathtaking fashion.
I am going to have to write my review and reflections in parts because there is just so much to say and comment on- so consider this part 1. Wow, where to start? Well, I guess I will just chime in on what I felt the book did really well. First off, I liked the many different tones of the story that Rowling was able to paint for the reader. I have to admit, it was a bit of a jolt reading a story that did not follow the trational arc of all of the other books- You know, the scenes with Dursleys, the trip to the Burrow or even Diagon Alley and then the trip to Hogwarts. There is a real sense that Harry is on his own and is shouldering quite a burden. While many of his friends are planning on heading back to school, Harry and his friends are preparing for the fight of their lives and still have no clue as to where to start. It took me a while to get into the book, but I have admit that I really liked how it started- right within Voldemort’s inner sanctum where we begin to see the stance and stragegy that Voldemort and his Death eaters are imploying to undermine the wizarding world. I really liked that Rowling took a hard line when painting so many different portraits of evil… whether displayed by Voldemort himself, the actions of his death Eaters or the tyranny of the Ministry. The ministy passages were done really well and there was a definite feeling of dread reading through those passages- especially of Umbridge heading up the Muggle-Born Registration Commission and the whole Magic is Might campaign of the Ministry itself.. the allusions to Nazi Germany was really terrifying, especially since Harry, Ron and Hermione were alll in the thick of things… and did anyone else notice how seemlessly the Ministry adapted all of this Death eater’s ideology??… creepy indeed. I have to admit, that when I was reading the passages where the trio had infiltrated the Ministry, I really hoped that the trio would pull through till the end because of all the suffering they had been through.
One of the themes I really enjoyed in the book was the whole idea of heroes… and why we need them. Rita Skeeter attempts to discredit Dumbledore in her biography on him, which is in stark contrast to Elphias Doge’s obit in the Daily Prophet on Dumbledore’s role as a hero to many because of his