Episode #31: Snape Revisted
After some good discussion in the comments of last week’s post, we’re back to take a fresh look at Snape. Is Snape good or evil, or perhaps, neither (or both)? Most of us are under the presumption that there is some explanation for Snape’s actions: either he was working for Voldemort all along, and fooling Dumbledore, or he is truly faithful to Dumbledore and the Order, and killing Dumbledore was for some greater good. But what if neither are true? What if Snape just trying to get by for as long as possible without taking sides? And he would have gotten away with it too, if weren’t for those pesky kids! Tune in as we revisit the question of Snape with a new theory as to what his motivations were.
And the news (brought to you by Greg this week, for a change):
- Growing controversy of Emma Watson’s physique (see the link for comparison photos).
- Vermont Paper Mill get Deathly Hallows job.
- Thieves make off with 700-pound wooden Dumbledore statue. Is nothing sacred?
- Aboon Books launches “My-Name-Is-Harry” Writing Contest. Win money writing about a guy whose name is also Harry Potter.
- Scholastic Poll: Is Snape Good or Evil?
You can listen to the the podcast using the player below, or download an mp3 directly.
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May 3rd, 2007 at 3:04 am
Penny- you were on to something, don’t have news. It’s perfunctory, inane, and it makes a great podast feel like it’s copying the BIG two.
Greg- you’re right the scholastic poll is inadequate.
Because it’s in demand: What Snape was doing with the prophecy. Snape was seduced by the dark arts as a child. He knew more dark magic than any student of Hogwarts- inventing his own spells, etc. After that he met up with the dark lord and was seduced into the fold, by the dark magic not the dark lord. He follows Voldemort for the knowledge nothing else. (Bellatrix likes the magic sure but likes following V, and the opportunity to kill, more)
Snape follows orders and he isn’t transparent like Bella, so V asks him to apply to Hogwarts and spy on Dumbledore. (I think, the Order of the Phoenix got a late start to stopping V but were gaining momentum by winter before Harry’s birth) While applying that spring, Snape overhears the prophecy, maybe he didn’t hear all of it, maybe he did but withheld parts to V (and Dumbledore) so he could use that to his own ends. He tells what he tells to V with another peice of info: “I’m not that tight within the Order but i went to school with Petter Pettigrew, he’s in the Order and you, lord, can lean on him”. (Why set Snape as a spy if Wormtail is loyal? I say set up Snape and gain Wormtail as a result).
End of July Neville and Harry are born and Dumbledore sends them into hiding. Snape and/ or Wormtail know they went into hiding and report this to V, (We can tell from Bella that Snape had something to do pointing V away from Neville. She went after the Longbottoms and thinks V is mistaked trusting Snape, said so in Prince. She also hisses when Harry calls V a half-blood in Order). I think it went something like, “My lord The Longbottom boy was born the 30th, the Potter boy on the 31st. He was born as the month dies.” Voldemort decides Harry is more like himself than Neville and seeks out Harry. Snape is happy with himself, V is going to kill James Potter, the baby Harry kills V and Snape gets all the credit minus one nemesis.
Pettigrew betrays the Potters, James dies, and V is vanquished by a boy who gets all of Snape’s publicity. He tells D a sob story about V leaned on him and how he couldn’t stop himself dispite James saving his life, all bullox. D has to see the good in people so he has to forgive.
When Harry attends Hogwarts all Snape sees is a boy who looks like James, acts like James, and is enjoying all Snape’s pub. That’s why he treats Harry like he hates him.
May 3rd, 2007 at 9:02 am
Ok Snape is good. No amount of philisophical manipulation will change that. This may be an entertaining pastime but I have to follow my instincts on this. Snape will die in book 7. Probably at Voldemortes hand while trying to save Harry. If for nothing more than to teach Harry a life lesson on rushing to judgement and trust. To quote Forest Gump , Thats all I have to say about that. Wake up and smell the coffee (tea) already.
May 3rd, 2007 at 10:37 am
I agree with Penny.
Besides, we already have Peter as the out-for-himself, do-anything-to-save-his-own-skin type. Even if he comes through in some way because of the life debt, that rat is still a big squashy mess of moral ambiguity. We don’t really need two of those characters to make the point. Might as well have the Snape story be tied up in a slightly more satisfying way.
May 3rd, 2007 at 10:52 am
The Duality of Man Theory is about the only way that I can compare what was talked about in the main subject of this podcast. Snape is the manifestation of this in every regard due to his seemingly double edged nature. This has been an age old conceived notion of an ultimate weapon, one that has the power ultimately to end war itself. Symbols found in eastern philosophy regarding this are still very common today. The best known are the Korean flag and the Ba-Gua which is the wheel used to determine alignments in Feng-Shui. Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz who was a German philosopher of the 1600’s actually popularized this way of thinking using the chart of 64 kwae determinants and converting them to mathematical charts based on the number 2 to the 6th power. Everyone into computers will immediately recognize this as the basis for the basic binary code used in early computers. Now the purpose behind this comment on the basic foundation behind major eastern religions such as Taoism and Buddhism is that is has been used as a plot line for many stories. Not just Harry Potter but the popular television series lost dives deep into this. I am sure Greg picked up on this right away as he did in his earlier comparisons of the plot line to Nardia and Lord of the Rings and their connection to religion. I believe that J.K. Rowling has taken this a step and at least attempted to include major religions as a hidden symbolism to how the houses of Hogwarts must unite to overcome evil. I stated before this being an ultimate weapon to overcome evil. Love being the catalyst to bind and forge them into this weapon. Another point which is obvious to me is that when you break down the members of the DA there are no slytherin members present to create the bond needed for this to happen. In fact as far as I know the only qualified candidate for this is Snape. I would encourage each of you to harness your own individual duality and take only what you know as facts from these books that are fiction and abstain from presupposed assumptions and see what you conclude about Snape. I find him to be good so I agree with Penny’s theory. Guess I had a little more to say about it.
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:52 am
I’m sorry retouching the subject of occlumency and legilimacy which is to me a Snape subject. What better tool for Snape to use as a mask to shroud his true intent than a hatred for the boy who lived. Seems like a thought easily mastered because of his feelings for the marauders. A shield to entertain Voldemorte from prying to deeply. If he actually felt this way there would have been no reason to attempt saving Harry from Quirrels attack in book one or from Werewolf Lupin in book 3 or to allow him to keep his Half Blood Prince potions book that he obviously knew Harry poscessed. The more dirt you dig up on snape the cleaner he looks
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:36 pm
You were asking about resources for bumper music. Here are a few:
http://www.podsafeaudio.com/
http://podsafeaudio.com/
http://soundblog.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!1pXOS7l93k8mqeQ7FlEEmOSQ!907.entry
Also if yo can get your hands on a mac with garage band installed there are some really neat loops you can mix together for bumper music.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Ok What the Fergie are you talking about .. ack……
I apologize for that .. SFC makes no sense around here either… so dont feel bad.. and whats sad is that I agreed with him about Snape.. plus I agree its Fiction ……
Penny dont stop doin the news cuz I dont listen to the other 2 pod casts just yall and I would NOT know what the Besnappey was going on…
Dee
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Aaron- You said, “The Duality of Man Theory is about the only way that I can compare what was talked about in the main subject of this podcast. Snape is the manifestation of this in every regard due to his seemingly double edged nature.”
I don’t understand what you mean. I don’t think Snape has a dualistic nature. I think and argue he is very consistent all along. Can you elaborate?
You also wrote: “I believe that J.K. Rowling has taken this a step and at least attempted to include major religions as a hidden symbolism to how the houses of Hogwarts must unite to overcome evil.”
I got the impression that Dumbledore says unity of all wizards is a tool against Voldemort and the Sorting Hat says unity amongst the houses are necessary to counter the peril from within- Umbridge. The Slytherins united with Umbridge and the other houses united with Dumbledore. This parallels, the real division in the wizarding community, My question is how is this a religious theme? Last time i checked religions haven’t united different peoples in a thousand years or so. And even then i don’t confuse unity with conformity.
“In fact as far as I know the only qualified candidate for this is Snape”
Crabbe, Goyle, and Malfoy then have no roll in the seventh book? Their loyalties are irrelevant even though Snape is now wanted by the Ministry for murder because of Darco. But Draco doesn’t matter? OK.
“I would encourage each of you to harness your own individual duality and take only what you know as facts from these books that are fiction and abstain from presupposed assumptions and see what you conclude about Snape.”
Excuse you!? I don’t have a duality. I am a singular personality. I think calling a person a duality is a pile of Psychological jargon to make it sound like a person is more complicated than we are. We are really simple creatures. My theory of the Duality of Anthropos is Macheavelli, “When they both love you and fear you, that is the best thing”. That is what Snape wants- what everybody wants. One cannot conclude Snape is good, not without prioritizing one side of evidence over another, which you implied that we shouldn’t do. He calls himself a Death Eater to Bella. But i don’t remember reading Snape refer to himself as “good”. Perhaps if you had explained how this theory actually applies to Snape i can understand your point better, in a between the lines way.
Snape says he protects Harry from Quirrel and werewolf Lupin to keep himself within Dumbledore’s fold and his job at Hogwarts. Are you so convinced of his goodness you ignore his own account of things to Bella? How can you tell when he’s lying or telling the truth? I say it’s simple, he’s always misleading his true intentions.
I find it morose that you dismiss a case i have been building for four weeks here as assumptive (name one assumption, buddy!), and your great case for Snape’s sainthood is a theory you mention but fail to contextualize to Serverus Snape.
Lastly isn’t it redundant to say “presupposed assumption”? Heve you ever used an assumption after the fact?
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:54 pm
My thoughts go more along with Penny’s here, and I really do believe Snape killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore’s own orders. I remember there being a bit in HBP where Hagrid heard the two arguing over something that Snape no longer wanted to do- and Dumbledore essentially told him to get over himself. I don’t see how this is at all relevent (we already knew Snape’s presumed role as a double-agent was difficult) unless it refers to this.
That said, the act of killing Dubledore does not nessicarily marry Snape to one side or the other, since both sides will see what they wish to in the act. I just feel that a life solely based on self-preservation seems to be a very sad and empty one, even for such an unadulterated Slytherin as Snape. I feel like Snape is just too driven to only be out for himself (especially since he is no longer a young man.) To exist so constantly in such a dangerous limbo… I would hope that there would be a motivation beyond survival, for good or evil.
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:57 pm
I like Penny doing the news.
Not that Greg didnt do a good job or anything! but, Penny is more into it and all penny-like.
But whatever, I’ll listen if Penny does the news, if Greg does the news, or their 7 (i think 7) year-old son does the news.
May 3rd, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Michal says “I just feel that a life solely based on self-preservation seems to be a very sad and empty one, even for such an unadulterated Slytherin as Snape.”
He’s not the only one so OK, lets run with that for a moment. In conjunction with my theory I have been also argueing that Snape wants prestige. His disappointment upon learning he lost his Order of Merlin first class to Sirius Black’s escape would reinforce Snape thinking his life empty. Through Goblet he is increasingly aware his Dark Mark reactivating, how would this make him feel? Would he be trepedatous having to serve the Evil V or would he be optimistic that he has a second chance to obtain what i say he lost, notority? He tells Bella that unlike Karkarove he knew exactly what he would do and when he would do it and wasn’t affraid of what was to come. He waited until Dumbledore sent him to Voldemort paving way for him to be double agent, a true double agent this time.
Keep in mind that Snape has had fourteen years learning what dark magic he could, Voldemort wasn’t. Maybe this is somthing he can hang his hat on maybe this is a complete fabrication of my own. But i find it hard to think Snape doesn’t find a small measure of comfort being head of Slytherin House at Hogwarts and owning the House cup and Quidditch cup every year he was teaching there, look that up on HP-Lexicon.
In conclusion, while i think self preservation is a crutial part of Slytherin courage, fame is also a part of the lifestyle. Slughorn works this his own way- Snape works it his. He had a bit of pride when he told Harry it was his job to decern the working of the Death Eaters. And he was also pleased with himself to tell Narcissa he was aware of Draco’s recuitment, although the exact means elluded him- the ends were clear.
“I believe the dark lord intends me to do it in the end” he tells Narcissa on Spinner’s End. What Hagrid overheard is contextually vague and may be about any great number of things. A red herring? Well not if one thinks his words with Naricssa were lies- but if he’s Order loyal, why suggest and commit an Unbreakable Vow?
I think he was hesitant commiting to kil D on Draco’s behalf but knew he couldn’t get out of it with Bella watching. He suspected, i think Dumbledore had alternatives and D tried them. If the other DE weren’t spectating it might have turned out differently- we’ll never know that one. But by that point, Snape had to protect his own hide. And i think he had fourteen years of D not hiring him as D.A.D.A. teacher to give him the hate in his eyes to curse D dead.
May 3rd, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Doasis- I’m a she
You clearly have a much more detailed picture of Snape than I do, and I very much respect that. I really don’t think I can debate you on this, but I still have to disagree. I feel like Hagrid’s comment was meant to be taken lightly, as are many other things JKR has slipped into her books. And as for the Unbreakable Vow, I think it was Narcissa who suggested it, and Snape could hardly back out at that point.
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:40 pm
My appologizes Michal.
I don’t expect to convince anyone but i am quite assured of my position.
May 4th, 2007 at 7:21 am
Good Morning. Let me start by saying I never called Snape a saint but you could argue that fact from my point of view as I believe he will martyred himself for Harry in this last book. It seems that it is our own point of view and perception that defines Snape to us and I believe that is how he was intended to be. Doasis I am guilty of dismissing your case outright for the same reason you stated my case not being made clearly. I felt that the facts as I have read them just don’t support this point of view. I was completely taken aback when you said you failed to see Snape’s duality and double edged nature. My contexts of Duality is more from an eastern philosophy (Zen) as opposed to Macheavelli which to me is more like writing born to kill on your helmet and wearing a peace sign on your body armor. However from your point of view I can see how my case is as confusing to you as yours is to me. We look at him and interpret this character very differently so our thoughts and descriptions are quite different as well. Can you see the duality? “Is Snape good or bad?,”is the question that best shows this .
I have made points to this taken from the books and I will try to give a brief review of why these lead me to believe Snape is on Harry’s side of the fight.
1. Snape zaps the weakened Dumbledore to death.. My thoughts are the argument between Snape and Dumbledore as relayed by Hagrid was probably over this subject. I think Dumbledore’s blackened hand was a mortal wound and this was a staged scene. I have my doubts if Dumbledore was even alive when Snape’s curse struck which would absolve Snape of murder.
2. Snape made an unbreakable vow to kill Dumbledore and protect Draco. My thoughts are that if the above is true then why not make such a vow. It would only serve to further establish his cover as a plant in the Deatheater camp.
3. Snape is not nice to Harry. My thought is this is his tool for hiding his thoughts from Voldemort and preventing his true motives for the OOP being revealed.
4. Snape continues to teach Harry while fleeing the scene. He stops Harry from casting an unforgivable curse. States don’t call me coward! My thoughts are these are not the actions of a killer.
5. There are lots of examples including attempts to save and protect Harry. That he accounts to Bella as needed to keep his cover and job but how would he have been blamed for them? Who was there to see these acts? No one of any consequence was present for Snape to put a show on for. No I think they are genuine.
6. Harry hates Snape and believes he is bad. My thoughts are Harry has been wrongly accusing Snape for a few books now. I still think he is still wrong about him…
In closing let me say I may be morose, redundant and irrational but I am right. Search your feelings you know it to be true! You will never be a Jedi by being single minded.
May 4th, 2007 at 7:40 am
Oh Brother.. Can I say something… pulling soap box over because I am too short to see over the keyboard to the monitor!! Clears throat….. Umm hmmmm.. thank you ..
ITS A FICTIONAL BOOK NOTHING IN IT IS REAL~!~!
Ok.. Better wake up now and realize you are Dual because you are who you are and apparently have another self to post on the internet so people cannot see your true self.. I feel that Snape is really good and he fakes being a bad wizard because he is there to protect Harry.. just my thought.. And as far as SFC being redundant.. well YEAH.. and his mind is all Fiction Too…. Just like this hooey of tryin to make something out of nothing.. isnt that a Rick Springfield song???
May 4th, 2007 at 7:47 am
On the spinners end having a dual meaning being Snape’s home and a spinner of a web of lies. Maybe Snape is just a spinster. He has no love life that we know of and an old spinster man may be the point.
May 4th, 2007 at 8:25 am
Your soul belongs to the Darklord!!!
May 4th, 2007 at 8:28 am
Hey you stole my parselmouth CD!
May 4th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
As i said, I don’t expect to convince anyone but i am quite assured of my position.
Dee you argue, “you are Dual because you are who you are and apparently have another self to post on the internet so people cannot see your true self.. ”
doasis is an avatar not a person nor a personality. I value my privacy and this is a measure to protect it. This is not a dicotomy but an extension of my true will. I am not a duality.
Aaron- thank you for your partial recant and yet i still don’t see your eastern philosophy applying to Snape. You characterize, “Macheavelli which to me is more like writing born to kill on your helmet and wearing a peace sign on your body armor.”
This isn’t my reading. Macheavelli is a dualism between the pivate and public realities in ruling a republic. It was a practical treatise with the goal of uniting the separate Italian pricipalities into a single state, which didn’t hapen until the 19C. Macheavelli charachterizes his work something like saying to the court, “I rule for betterment of the people” and saying in private chambers, “I rule because i must, it is chaos without me”. I see your characterization as an outright contradiction and not steming from “the Prince”.
your points
1) this is your opinion and there is no greater amount of textual reference for your thinking than there is for my own. Well, Dumbledore was calling for Snape to help him, in words and in his eyes, right up until the green flash. Your doubting he was alive before the curse seems unsubstantiated.
2) your saying that Snape was, by that point, aware of Dumbldore’s hand and thought, “He’s a gonner anyway i might as well reinforce my standings with the death eaters.” How is this a justification of a good and forgivable person?
3) You think Snape is harsh on Harry because it pleases Voldemort. Tell me how did Snape come to this conclusion while thinking V was GONE and he’s confiscating Harry’s “Quidditch Through the Ages” while H was reading it outside durring Philosopher’s Stone? Snape treats Harry like a maurader, wouldn’t you agree? (Consult the Occlumency chapter in Order before answering, please.)
4) Well, regardless of who gave the order, a killer he is. I still think Snape instructing Harry is because Snape knows that in the long run He will not remain in the good graces of V, not with Bella criticizing him, and his integrity.
5) Snape also tells Bella he has to do this because Harry is Dumbledore’s favorite and won’t forgive should anything befall Harry. Moreover aren’t Ron and Hermione always nearby? Don’t you think they will tell if Snape attacked for failed to protect Harry- like against werewolf Lupin?
6) You said in yourself you think Harry is wrong. That’s your thoughts i respect that. But my thoughts are no less valid. All of your points are argued from sentiment all of mine are based on my own. My feels confirm my truth: Snape has NO loyalties outside his own ends.
Dee you make the point, “ITS A FICTIONAL BOOK NOTHING IN IT IS REAL~!~!”
Let me say that literary criticism has deepen the appreciation of literature in our culture. Educating the young of literature and the method of its criticism has improved the quality of literature. Compare the drama of Sophocles, to the drama of Shakespeare, to the drama of Arthur Miller.
With each of these dramatist the depth of their characters, the audiences they serve, the moral of their storytelling, the flow of the drama through the plot, all have grown by leaps and bounds, and this is because of education and literary criticism. What we are doing may lead to inspire the next generation of artists.
Lastly Dee when you say, “Your soul belongs to the Darklord” you don’t attack my argument you attack me. I think you should appologize for arguing Ad Hominem.
May 4th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
One comment Penny made was regarding the death scene.
She said Doumbledore pleaded, then Snape’s expression changed, then he killed. Maybe you were implying that Snape was digusted with the pleading (if bad) or upset that he had to follow DD’s orders (if good).
The book order is different, it is he gets to the tower and his expression changes, then DD pleads, then death.
This is why I agree with Greg. He was disgusted that what he dreaded most (having to choose a side) had come to a head. It would have been easier to agree to the unbreakable vow to help Malfoy if he thought the moment of truth would never arrive — but it did. The Spinner had reached his End-Game. He may have had an agreement with DD, he DID have a agreement with Narcissa, but either way at that moment he could no longer play the fence. If either side ends up winning, he ended up winning, but now he is on one side and all eggs are in one basket.
May 4th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Doasis- I may be wrong (it happens all the time so it wouldn’t surprise me if it is happening now) but I think Dee was beeing tongue in cheeck and I also think she was talking to Aaron (who she refers to as SFC) mostly. I am not sure if they have established this in the comments section but Dee is Aaron’s wife (Sorry to them if they mind my divulging that) and I am pretty sure the sould belonging to the dark lord was directed at Aaron. Dee or Aaron can jump in here if I am wrong but I figured as the “moderator” here, before this turned into an unhappy place I’d clear things up a bit.
Carry on.
May 4th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
dsiedell- First of all, welcome! Glad to have your comments and opinions here. That having been said, I am not sure I agree with you. There is no mention of Snape’s expression before the one of revulsion and hatred. Here is how the story goes from the time Snape enters the ramparts:
(HBP American Page 595)
“…but at that precise moment, the door ot the ramparts burst open once more and there stood Snape, his wand clutched in his hand as his black eyes swept the scene, from Dumbledore slumped agains the wall, to the four Death Eaters, including the enraged warewolf, and Malfoy.
‘We’ve got a problem, Snape,’ said the lumpy Amycus, whose eyes and wand were fixed alike upon Dumbledore, ‘the boy dopesn’t seem able-’
But somebody else had spoken Snape’s name, quite softly.
‘Severus…’
The sound frightened Harry beyond anything he had experienced all evening. For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading. Snape said nothing, but walked forward and pushed Malfoy roughly out of the way. The three Death Eaters fell back without a word. Even the warewolf seemed cowed.
Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.
‘Severus…please…’
Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore.
‘Avada Kedavra!”
Truthfully, I don’t think this passage proves anything for either of us (you or me), because Snape could just as well have the look of hatred and revulsion at the thought of Killing DD OR at the thought of having to make the decision. But what it does prove is that Snape didn’t change his mind one way or the other from the start of the scene till the end.
I think he knew what he had to do from the get go- as soon as he got onto the ramparts and when he surveyed the scene and realized that he was right, and that DD agreed with him that is when the hatred and revulsion (for the task he had to complete) showed up on his face.
May 4th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Thanks for the welcome.
Penny, you are right. Thanks for posting the passage. His expression did not change and he did act with purpose.
And maybe, because I cannot decide the good/bad issue, I tend to see it as Doasis and Greg that it is Snape’s Slytherin background for self preservation and glory that being painted into a corner is the worst thing for him. He would have been a hero for either cause and now half of his “life” is gone.
I didn’t read any of the books until just a few months ago, so I’m glad I won’t be wrestling with this good/bad Snape issue for too long.
May 4th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Well I will apologise if you took the Dark Lord comment as an insult. It was actually not directed to you at all. It is from a song by the Parselmouths named,” It’s not Half Bad”. She was simply singing it to me because it is a catchy tune I can’t get out of my head with a chorus about Snape just likes to yell at Harry Potter. Wizard rock stuff nothing more. Actually Dee wouldn’t attack you or your arguement at all because I can’t even get her to read the books. Now to recomment on your points to my points.
TTFN
1. You are very correct in saying that there is no more textual reference for my thoughts than yours. Your conclusions and mine both have merit and again are directly related to how we see this character. Again perhaps I am reaching with Dumbledore being dead before the curse struck but the fact he was brought back to Hogwarts by Harry’s powers and not his own, the fact of him slidding lower and lower against the wall and his pleading to Snape. I just can’t take that as begging for his life but as begging for Snape to carry out the plan. Lastly I feel that the Pheonix would have similarly shielded this attack as it did Voldemort’s in OOP. It was no where to be seen and again I think this was according to plan.
2. I not only feel Snape was aware of Dumbledore’s mortal wounds but was in fact responsible for extending his life when he was injured destroying the ring. The potion in the cave I feel just sped up the process. Again this is only speculation. Dumbledores complete trust of Snape and repeated defense of this along with Snape’s talents as a healer and potions master with a self describing comment of being able to show the students how to cheat death are just a few of the reasons I feel this way.
3. I thinkit is easy for Snape to channel his feelings of resentment and disdain to Harry exactly because of the Marauders. His worse memory is being hung upside down by Harry’s father. I feel he uses these memories to build his wall. Harry may have actually been getting to close to seeing beyond it which well could be the reason for the sudden termination of the lessions.
4. I think that Voldemort is already on to him. He wouldn’t be a good villian if he wasn’t. Snape is facing death from Voldemort and the Don’t call me coward statement to Harry will come into play there. I like Bella but feel she is more of a Neville/ Sirius supporting bad guy because Voldemort to me would care less about how she feels about Snape. I actually hope you are right about her significance because I like the character.
5. Yes all true but wouldn’t he say that to her if my thoughts are right?
6. I mean in Harry’s view from the very 1st book was Snape is trying to steal the stone. You know how that turned out.
It’s seems we have covered this ground before and decided to wait and see who gets the T-shirt when the book comes out. It’s getting close. I wear XL by the way.
May 4th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Yep.. exactly Penny .. I was quoting the Parselmouths.. Wizard Rock Song .. Not a bad place to be…. and was speakin to SFC and I dont think I have to apologize for my opinion … I find most Potter stuff a bunch of HOOEY!!!! And my husband has an interest in it.. so I humor him with reading his rantings and chatting it up with Penny .. ‘
Slytherin because we get to wear Green and are expected to be mean … No way no how passing Potions .. …
Yeah yeah yeah Harry Potterrrrrr
May 4th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
All that just to agree to disagree. No problem though, just expect your Tshirt to be a child’s XL. It’s funnier that way.
May 4th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
That was funny. I actually chortled.
May 4th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
DOASIS – DOAS Intelligent System
DOASIS is an allround tool for working with spectral data. Data aquisition, mathematical operations, species evaluation and support for several kinds of spectrometer and other devices are already included. Custom support for other algorithms or devices can easily integrated. An easy-to-use script interface is included as well. So automation of measurement and evaluation setups can by implemented by the user to fit his needs.
DOASIS can be used with no charge for academic and non-commercial use only (What does that mean?)
May 4th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
It means you shouldn’t google my handle expecting to find a person.
A DOASIS is in this case a type of software that sorts data from other sources.
May 4th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
I was s actuually looking for a definition not a person. Since it is a lower case word I didn’t expect it to be a proper noun. Curious just because I thought I had heard it somewhere before.
May 4th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Oh yeah I looked up chortled as well.
May 5th, 2007 at 8:18 am
I’m going to jump in here with my unfounded, unsupported theory on Snape. Many of my friends think he is truly good. Me? I think he’s bad and I think we will find he has been bad all along.
I call it my Alias’ Irina Drevko theory. All of my friends thought she was going to turn out to be good b/c she always seemed to watch out for Sidney, but in the final episode, she turned out to be bad all along. I think we will find the same with Snape.
Although, I do like Greg and Doasis’s theory that Snape is really just self-serving and plays both sides till forced to choose. But I tend to lean toward’s Penny’s belief that it is really black and white with Snape, but I take the position that he’s a bad dude.
Great Podcast by the way!
May 5th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Hmmmmm , Hello Wendy, are you certain that’s how you feel? Just because Alan Rickman played Hans the bad guy in die hard doesn’t mean he is always role type cast as a villian does it or does it? According to the Chaos theory his badness makes him good doesn’t it? Ok I was just joking you made some good points. I’m still just trying to cut myself out of this childs XL T-shirt. Makes me feel like Simon from American Idol.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:16 am
Well i was Browsing Through The Interweb and found this intresting Website Called http://www.beyondhogwarts.com check out what i find there.
Dumbledore Is Not Dead!
by David Haber
Well… maybe not. At least, I don’t think he is.
I must admit, J.K. completely got me. I fell for it all, hook, line and sinker.
I waited on line at midnight on July 16 to be among the first to get a copy of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, like millions of others around the world, and I had it completely read by the afternoon of the next day.
Caught up in the roller coaster of J.K.’s marvelous and fantastic mysteries, Snape’s betrayal and the death of Dumbledore caught me completely by surprise. Dumbledore was dead, and on top of that, Snape had done it.
My brand-new copy of Half-Blood Prince became as tear-stained as one of Hagrid’s notes, and I remained upset about it all the rest of the day.
But after sleeping on it, the next day I realized that there were important clues about Snape and Dumbledore that I had missed. And the more I looked back, the more clues I found, realizing that they had been there all along.
And all of the clues point to two possibilities, that Dumbledore’s not really dead, or at the very least, that Snape’s not really a Death Eater, and he killed Dumbledore because Dumbledore ordered him to, as part of a grand plan.
I’ve created this web site for Harry Potter fans who were just as upset as I was upon first reading the new book, to help them understand and feel better about the mysterious “death” of Dumbledore. Think of this site as Half-Blood Prince therapy.
While of course only J.K. knows for sure, at least we can comfort ourselves with the possiblity that there’s more going on at the end of Half-Blood Prince than meets the eye.
I don’t think finding these clues is wishful thinking. We know J.K. intentionally hides many clues in her books, daring her readers to be what our friends at Wizarding World Press call “HP Sleuths”, uncovering the details of the mystery she so masterfully weaves into the fabric of the Harry Potter books.
If you need more convincing that J.K. hides clues in her books, take a look at this non-Dumbledore-death-related example, which uses actual quotes from the book as we will be doing throughout this website (page numbers from US edition/UK edition):
This left Harry, Ron and Hermione to share a table with Ernie. They chose one nearest a gold-colored cauldron that was emitting one of the most seductive scents Harry had ever inhaled: Somehow it reminded him simultaneously of treacle tart, the woody smell of a broomstick handle, and something flowery he thought he might have smelled at the Burrow. (HBP pg 183/174)
“You recognized it, I suppose, by its distinctive mother-of-pearl sheen?” “And the steam rising in characteristic spirals,” said Hermione enthusiastically, “and it’s supposed to smell differently to each of us, according to what attracts us..” (HBP pg 185/176)
“Hang on,” a voice said to Harry’s left ear and he caught a sudden waft of that flowery smell he had picked up in Slughorn’s dungeon. He looked around and saw that Ginny had joined them. (HBP pg 192/182)
There, in the span of approximately nine pages, J.K. has laid out clues that Harry likes Ginny, and we know now that in the course of the book he does come to that conclusion.
On this site we’ll discuss the various clues all throughout Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince that will help us get through the tragedy at the end of the book.
And while we do this, we will be declaring our love and admiration for Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore, and stand together with Harry in declaring that we’re “Dumbledore’s man” (or woman), never giving up on him, and never forgetting what he means to Harry, Hogwarts and us.
As Harry so poignantly reminded us upon Scrimgeour’s insistance that Dumbledore was dead:
“Such loyalty is admirable, or course,” said Scrimgeour, who seemed to be restraining his irritation with difficulty, “but Dumbledore is gone, Harry. He’s gone.” “He will only be gone from the school when none here are loyal to him,” said Harry, smiling in spite of himself. (HBP pg 648/604)
May 7th, 2007 at 12:18 am
Dumbledore Clues
by David Haber
These are some of the excellent clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support the possibility that Dumbledore is not really dead, or at least Snape killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore’s orders, and that everything that happened that night was planned well in advance by Dumbledore himself.
Each one of these clues is perhaps, by itself not completely convincing, but if you put them all together…
1. Dumbledore’s Big Chill
Harry and Dumbledore are up on the top of the tower underneath the Dark Mark. Harry is wearing his invisibility cloak, Dumbledore ordered him to put it on before they mounted their brooms to ride to the top of the tower. Harry hears footsteps and looks around, but Dumbledore orders him with a gesture to retreat. Harry draws his wand and backs away:
The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and shouted, “Expelliarmus!” Harry’s body became instantly rigid and immobile, and he felt himself fall back against the tower wall, propped like an unsteady statue, unable to move or speak.(HBP pg 584/545)
It’s interesting to note that things are happening so fast, even Harry is momentarily confused:
He could not understand how it happened — Expelliarmus was not a Freezing Charm — Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore’s wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood… Dumbledore had wordlessly immobilzed Harry, and the second he had taken to perform this spell had cost him the chance of defending himself. (HBP pg 584/545)
Why did Dumbledore freeze Harry? Harry was already invisible to their attackers and in no danger.
The only explanation could be that Dumbledore already knew, had already planned, that he would die this night (or appear to die), and not only did he not want Harry to become involved and possibly be injured himself, he needed Harry to be a witness, to be able to tell everyone else what happened.
Dumbledore might have also promised Snape that he would make sure that Harry would not be able to interfere, knowing how Harry feels about Snape and what Snape was about to have to do.
The supposition that it was Dumbledore’s plan to do this all along is supported by the fact that he acted so quickly to do it, almost without thinking, when Draco burst in on the scene.
Harry’s own assumption that the Freezing Charm was done by Dumbledore is supported by the fact the curse lifted when Dumbledore left the tower minutes later
May 7th, 2007 at 12:26 am
5. Don’t Point That At Me Unless You Mean It
Several times in the course of the Harry Potter books, J.K. has told us that the Avada Kedavra is not a curse you can make lightly.
In Goblet of Fire, the fake Mad Eye Moody tells his DADA class:
“Avada Kedavra’s a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it — you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I’d get so much as a nosebleed.” (GoF pg 217/192)
And in Order of the Phoenix, we learn more about Avada Kedavra when Harry tries to curse Bellatrix:
Hatred rose in Harry such that he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed “Crucio!” Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe or shriek with pain as Neville had — she was already on her feet again … “Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?” she yelled. “You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain — to enjoy it …” (OotP pg 810/715)
If Snape was really working on Dumbledore’s orders to make it look to the world as if Snape had killed him, even if he had used the real Avada Kedavra, if he had not really meant it, if he really didn’t want to kill Dumbledore, then isn’t it possible that the curse didn’t kill Dumbledore, but only injured him badly?
May 7th, 2007 at 8:18 am
I’m pretty sure JKRowling has said that DD is definitely dead…but these theories are intriguing.
May 7th, 2007 at 8:49 am
Well…Hello Greg and Penny!! im back leaving you guys comment fo the second time!! so…how’ve u been? To tell ya the truth….i didnt listen to this episode yet but i will, definitely…(hahahha i just gotta save the best for last) the snape topic hmmm…i really dont know. I think he’s bad but im really really hoping that the whole killing-dumbledore thing is just a plot btw snape n dd himself. well, you’ve probably heard that a thousand times already lol but yeh….. i gotta get goin’now….school’s waiting for me T_T i’ll come back again after i listen to the episode so i can join your little discussion hehhe. take care
May 7th, 2007 at 9:31 am
Hello Ronald, I don’t know if I can agree that Dumbledore is alive but the rest of what you say goes along with my gut feeling. Ashley, I think Snape is one bad dude but secretly on Harry’s side. I sure am glad I don’t have to go to school anymore.
May 7th, 2007 at 9:35 am
Oh yeah wasn;t it the torture curse Harry tried on Belli? He started the killing curse at the end trying to attack Snape but Snape was able to stop Harry’s words saying
May 7th, 2007 at 9:37 am
No unforgiveable curses from you Potter! I think Snape was preventing Harry from crossing that line.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Hey all- I was hoping to get some help with a theory im trying to develop. I was thinking back to Aunt Petunia in Book 5- I was re-reading the chapter “A Peck of owls” where Dudley and Harry return to Privet Dr. from the dementor attack and Petunia ends up unwittingly revealing that she knows a lot more about the wizarding world- especially significance of knowing what Voldemort being back means. We also know that Dumbledore corresponded with Petunia in the past, before the note he sent along with Harry which was really addressed to both Vernon and Petunia. Petunia also makes mention of overhearing a conversation between Lily and that “awful boy” when they were younger- now- most of us have assumed that this person was either James or Sirius- but what if it was Voldemort?? We know that Dumbledore has spent a good portion of his time trying to seek out people that have information on Voldemort or have interacted with him in some way. Is it possible that Voldemort wanted something from the Evans family? The fact that Voldemort was willing to let Lily live the night of Harry’s attack in Godric’s Hollow is also an indicator that he needed her for something- not as a favour to anyone else…. As far as I can see, the only link Petunia could have to Lily would be through Voldemort and perhpas that was because the sisters might have shared a secret that Voldemort wanted revealed to him- possibly a valuable heirloom or something related to the founders??
May 7th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
One technical problem. According to the HP Lexicon timeline (by which I am left stunned and dazzled by right now) Riddle left Hogwarts in around 1945, while Lily/James did not arrive until about 1970. So I’m thinking that “boy” would have been rather an innapropriate description of Tom Riddle on Petunia’s part. (I really don’t mean to kill your theory! But also, I just can’t see how any possible connection could have developed between Lily, to our knowlege a Muggle-born, and Voldemort.)
That said, I have wondered in the past who else the “awful boy” could have been. There seems to be a curious lack of response from Petunia when Harry challenges her to call his parents by their names. (I had a theory that it was the infamous Mark Evans’s dad, but that’s been dead and decently buried.) So much to learn, so little time!
May 7th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Good thoughts, Michal. As I gold Greg in T in an e-mail, coincidentally, I just read that chapter over the weekend and I have to say. It is a chapter full of questions that have not been answered. I think we will have to dedicate an episode just ot that chapter and prognosticate on it.
I always assumed “that awful boy” was James and Petunia didn’t want to call him by his name. However, I sort of assumed it was a “the lady doth protest too much” thing with her. I am fairly certain that Petunia was probably (secretly) quite ennamored with Lily’s life as a witch and with her counterparts and Petunia probably feigned disinterest and disgust to cover her jealousy at not having the special power/life that Lily had. If anyone ever had a sibling, I am sure they could understand this. I am sure that James was quite charming to the Evans family (especially to the parents who were so pround of their witch daughter, Lily) and Petunia probably felt even more overshadowed by Lily than she had when Lily got her acceptance letter to Hogwarts. Especially because Petunia probably brought vernon home roughly around the same time that Lily brought James home. Look at the difference between the two men. Who wouldn’t prefer James?
May 7th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Woops, that last comment was from me, not greg.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Well, Voldemort could have easily have disguised himself if he had tried to achieved his aims, so Petunia’s description I think could still be accurate. The question remains though… why was Dumbledore in touch with Petunia prior to Lily’s death? Petunia also seems to me in that chapter to know more about the wizarding world besides Dementors and Azkaban- I think something traumatic happened that caused her to completely banish all connections to the magical community, something other than a dislike and jealousy towards her sister. Her look of utter terror when Harry tells her that Voldmort is back is something I just can’t shake- there has to be more to that response. At first I thought that Dumbledore had tried to contact Petunia because Dudley might have been magical but JKR revealed that Dudley was just Dudley, and there wasn’t more to him than what we have seen.
May 7th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
I think there certainly has to be more to Petunia, but I’m getting a bit confused. We only know of two times that Dumbledore contacted her- correct? The letter left with Harry, and the Howler. I don’t really think she was particularly connected with the Wizarding World, or in contact with Dumbledore before or after this.
Penny, I’m smiling thinking of that first family dinner…
One of my favorite lines in Order was when Harry “appreciated for the first time that Petunia was his mother’s sister…” (or something like that.) It’s still so poignient to me, especially considering what Harry learned about his parents soon after. It was so humanizing… and I’ve just realized that’s a big theme in book 5. Petunia, Dumbledore, James, Sirius, Snape, and the entire Wizarding World turn out to be spectacularly capable of failure or peculiar redemption in book 5. Harry as well can be particularly irritating at times. Maybe it’s ironic that the evils he is fighting both seem super/sub human, and yet Harry has to deal with them in such an intimate fashion.
(Sorry if I’m stepping on “Patterns in Potter” here, I haven’t read it!)
May 7th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Would not Snape have been around the right age to be that awful boy?
May 7th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Ok here is a toss in the hat. The spinners end connection I mentioned calling Snape a spinster may well have been due to his failed love withh Petunia. Snape and Petunia may well have been as hot an item as Maxim and Hagrid. When Snape’s ambitions to become a deatheater took hold he was forced to abondon Petunia as she was not nearly worthy enough to be associated with. Shunned in this fashion Petunia could only harbor a near hatred filled attitude toward the Magical world. Ah wouldn’t it be just like Snape to almost have been Harry’s Uncle?
May 7th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Ok, why did I never think of that?
May 7th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
(Of Snape being the AB, that is… not really on board with the Snape/Petunia thing…)
May 7th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Ha hA me either but it sounded so funny I went for it.
May 7th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Hmmmm could there be any connection to R.A.B. and the really awful boy?
May 7th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Actually, Snape would be more plausible as the “awful boy”.
Well, here is the excerpt from JKRowling.com (FAQ section) regarding Petunia Dursley:
***********************************************
What did Dumbledore’s Howler to Aunt Petunia mean? (‘Remember my last’?)
Well, it is a relief to move on after the Mark Evans fiasco. This time, two out of the three poll questions had interesting answers (or so I think) and thank goodness you chose one of them.
So: Dumbledore is referring to his last letter, which means, of course, the letter he left upon the Dursleys’ doorstep when Harry was one year old. But why then (you may well ask) did he not just say ‘remember my letter?’ Why did he say my last letter? Why, obviously because there were letters before that…
Now let the speculation begin, and mind you type clearly, I’ll be watching…
P.S. It has been suggested that I am wrong in saying that Dumbledore’s last letter was the one he left on the doorstep with baby Harry, and that he has sent a letter since then concerning Harry’s illegal flight to school. However, both Dumbledore and I differentiate between letters sent to the Dursleys as a couple, and messages directed to Petunia ALONE. And that’s my final word on the subject – though I doubt it will be yours
*******************************
Interesting words from Ms. Rowling… I am pretty convinced that Dumbledore wouldn’t be contact Petunia for some trivial concern, assuming that he was in contact with her during the first war since I think all of his efforts were concerned with taking Voldemort down. Whether this communication has something to do with Lily as well I think is up for some serious speculation.
May 7th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
I’m not even sure where to begin speculating. I Would have to consider what I know. The Durselys seem to be mmore burdened by Harry than to have any sort of family loyalty or genuine family bond to use a better word. It always struck me as odd that her dead sister’s child would be treated as such. It’s almost like an evil step parent in a fairy tale. So then I would ask what is there motivation or incentave to be Harry’s keeper? Fear of reprisal from Dumbledore or could there be a tangable benefit to them that has yet to be mentioned. Vernon seems like a non player in this and seems to only follow Petunia’s lead. Is she being protected from something as well? I think of Dumbledores offer to Draco about completely hiding his mother and him. Could Petunia be in the witness protection program? I will have to give this more thought . The deeper I get the mmore questiions it seems to create.
May 7th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Snape wasn’t preventing him from doing those curses, he was pointing out to Potter that until he’s able to control his emotions and stop wearing them on his sleeve, he’ll never be able to successfully attack someone with an Unforgivable Curse. Since Harry’s so obviously emotional and upset, he’s easy to anticipate and defend against. Only if he can reign in the emotions and channel is anger more rationally will he have a chance of defeating a skilled Dark wizard.
May 7th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Interesting point Greg. Your comment reminds of how Dumbledore dealt with Voldemort when he was engaged in battle with him at the Ministry of Magic. He was very cool, calm and collected, a person in full command of his abilities- definitely all the signs of a skilled wizard who has had experience with dark magic. I just can’t wait for DD to utter the line, “It was foolish of you to come here tonight Tom” when all finally see DD confront Voldemort in the OoP movie.
May 7th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Ok, first poster here, and new topic.
I confess I haven’t read all the comments to all the previous episodes so forgive me if I repeat someone else’s thoughts, but Rowling adamantly repeat a few themes.
1. Harry looks like James but has Lily’s eyes…
2. You can’t apparate in Hogwarts.
3. Petunia knows more about witchcraft than the other characters know
I thing Greg and Penny alluded to the eyes in an early Podcast.
Why is it then, with regard to apparating, that house-elfs can apparate in Hogwarts with the greatest of ease?
Any and all comments appreciated…
May 7th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
Hello Penny & Greg! Let me just start my saying I just subscribed to your podcast for the first time last week. I had my iPod for about 3 years and had no idea what a podcast was until literally last week. I am a HUGE HP fan but have kinda been out of the HP community for a while because I’ve been so busy with school. But I always seem to find my way back when the release of a new book is approaching. So any hoo, I discoved what a podcast was and immediately started searching for HP podcasts. I subscribed to every podcast available and downloaded all archived episodes. I decided to start listening to you all’s podcast first (from the beginning) and immediately loved it. After listening to several episodes I decided to find out what’s all the hype about the very popular “podcast who shall not be named.” I must admit, I WAS NOT impressed AT ALL! But I’m not here to bash “you know what.” What I am here for is to tell you that I think your show is amazing. I love your thought provoking discussions, creativity and organization (Even when it’s not planned). You guys REALLY discuss the book and analyze it instead of just goofing off and getting waaay off subject. I like the fact that you keep it short and to the point, even though sometimes I’d prefer you to go further. And I especially love the fact that you guys are a couple; it makes for very interesting debate. 2 cohost work much better than 5 guys trying to talk at once. Well anyway, I just wanted to let you know how great you are and to keep up the good work. P.S. Look out for me on myspace, I will be adding you guys very soon.
May 7th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Hmmmmmm Ok Greg but I still think he was preventing him for other than the obvious reasons of self defense. It is very true what you said about Snape teaching him a lession by demonstrating how easy it was to deal with him and showing how his emotions betray his attacks but ( and you actually made me reread pages 602 thru 605 of HBP) There is not one curse that Harry was able to speak fully. All are shown to be cut short, I will reluctantly conced that after Snape yelled no unforgiveable curse’s from you Potter! his very next sentence was You haven’t the nerve or the ability. He may have added that to prevent his true intentions from being known to the other deatheaters that were present but I will give you that one. Of corse he goes on to reveal himself as the HBP with an interesting comment about How Harry was trying to use his own inventions against him like your filthy father. Hmmmm still lots of hostility for James 15 years after his death. Even so if Snape is on the dark side or even just out for himself why would he bother trying to show Harry anything? It would seem as he had just played his hand. If what doasis and you have described him as holds water then why not just zap him and be done with it? There is just got to be more to those pages than that. Lastly, when saying his don’t call me coward line his expression is not of rage or anger but described as if being in as much pain as the burning dog. That would seem to suggest that Harry had hit something personal. I’m gonna go take a flintstones vitiman and await your replys.
May 7th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Aaron: In our first Snape podcast, I referenced the pages under discussion as proof that Snape was really a good guy, and was, even as he flew from Hogwarts as a traitor, trying to teach Harry what he needed to know to defeat Voldemort. It would seem to point to Snape being a good guy, but it could also just be he was backed into a corner and forced to make a self-preserving bad decision, but still thinks everyone’s better off without Voldie.
Arsenyc: Thanks!
William: I think JKR has said that house elves have different magic that allows them to apparate in and out of Hogwarts.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:05 am
William I think House Elves and their magic are a separate entity. I have seen no elf with a wand as it seems they have no need of them. You could argue that Dobby’s spell on the cake was detected by the Ministry but that may have been part of his attempt to prevent Harry from returning to Hogwarts. I know that Dobby has been portrayed as disappearing with a snap of the fingers and the way he fads away just make me think it is similar but different than appartating.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:47 am
Well ok, sorry Greg didn’t know you were up burning the midnight oil. Guess we agree on elf magic LOL. Funny you mentioned Snape, Good, Bad or both as that was the first podcast episode I ever listened to. I guess maybe since I am so Hagrid-like that Dumbledore’s death has traumatized me so I am jsut confusing myself. I will stick to my guns though and say Dumbledore was already dead when Snapes curse struck. Also in my prediction that Snaape will sacrifice himself to save another(probably Harry). I may be grasping at straws ignoring the fact that he is a Slytherin but I think his redemption will be used to not only teach Harry a final lesson on rushing to judgement but as a redemption for the House of Slytherin. Just thinking to do this it will have to be a complete dramatic vindicating turn around. Like doasis said I’m making him out to be some sort of saint because I think that is what it will take. I think I’ve beat this dead horse into a pancake.
May 8th, 2007 at 6:55 am
Regarding the triangle/circle singe, I came across this screenshot from the GoF movie, a scene in Dumbledore’s office, after Barty Crouch’s body is discovered. Look in the left part of the picture:
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4756/dumbledoredevicetw8.jpg
Could this be an invention of Dumbledore’s that will help him in his quest?
May 8th, 2007 at 7:30 am
I really use the movies as a tool to decide what is really important. When you have to edit and cut out/change parts of the book in order to make it fit in a time limit we are afforded the luxery of seeing certain things that must be included to sustain the plot/outcome. I pay particular attention to the scenes that make you ask the question, Why put that in when this other scene that was cut is so much cooler. Of course we will have only just over 1 week to compare OOTP. Wonder if it’s worth expending the brain power? Any ways Greg in Toronto I’m checkiing my copy of GOF to see if there is mention of these pyramid shaped items specifically. Only problem is my darn kids have put it somewhere and I can’t locate it at the moment. Dog gone kids acting like these Potter books are for them, The nerve!
May 8th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Yes, there has been talk of the movies being set up to coincide with future storylines- in particular how the Godric’s Hollow scenes were staged in the first movie. I just thought ti was very interesting to see that device, it is very similar to the symbol we have seen on the spine… im not sure though that there is any description of such a device in the books, but I thought it was fun to ponder regardless…
That is what we do here!
May 8th, 2007 at 9:59 am
Well…technically, we prognosticate- not ponder but I guess that is ok.;)
May 8th, 2007 at 10:05 am
LOL, details, details Penny…. okay, I PROGNOSICATE that the instrument in the picture may represent the symbol on the spine and it may help Harry in his quest in book 7.
May 8th, 2007 at 10:40 am
Ok looking at the symbol it seems to be a common rune with many meanings from differant ancient cultures to modern masons. I guess there could be a whole lot of directions you could go with this. I tend to favor the trilogy theory. Again when faced with so many possibilities I will give my gut reaction and say it is a mark that the meaning of is of less importantance. That is it’s location is more important than the meaning. Perhaps a key with the same symbol unlocks a similarly marked chest or door. Well there is my attempt at an original thought for it. Ponder er Prognosticate on it and let me know.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Just to give some feedback on Helga Hufflepuff being named wizard of the month- I think that Jo is just giving us some food for thought on the founders as I think they will be a primary focus in the seventh book… guaranteed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Rowena Ravenclaw, Salazar Slytherin, or Godric Gryfinddor end up being posted as Wizard of the Month as we lead up to the book release in the coming months.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
I agree, although there’s only time for two more WoM’s before Deathly Hallows is released. The cup she was holding actually fit my idea of the potential horcrux perfectly, with two handles and everything.
May 8th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
We went from Runes to founders? We still have 65 days until the movie and like 73 for the book. I don’t know if I can keep up let me put some fresh batteries in my remote.
May 8th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
I think it’s much more simple than we’re all trying to make it.
Snape is good.
The fight to rid the world of Voldemort’s evil is much greater than Dumbledore’s life and much more important than breaking Snape’s cover as an OoTP spy.
Although it may take a while for Harry to see it, I think Rawling made it clear to the readers by what Snape turned to Harry and said in his retreat.
Love and enjoy the show.
Take care…
-CoolCole
May 9th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
CoolCole: after all the backs and forths, I like your take on it. Mostly for the reason that it preserves the idea that things are not black and white, but from a different perspective; it’s not a question of whether or not Snape is black or white, but whether the decision to kill Dumbledore is black and white. Good people sometimes have to do morally ambiguous things.
The question is: how does this affect a person? The bottom line: Snape is still a murderer.
May 9th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
I love the idea of the symbol being something we’ve seen but not noticed, but there’s one problem with the instrument in the screencap — the Circle on the spine is a broken circle … look closely and you’ll see that if faced the same way, one half is smaller than the other and woudl fit inside the right side (i believe it’s the larger one).
I’m still wondering if this is a rune. Anyone out there speak Celtic?
May 9th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Maybe he’s “comfortable with morally gray…”
As for the murder thing, it’s awfully complicated. Is it murder if (as I think) Dumbledore had arranged for this to happen? On top of which, Snape actually *had* to kill Dumbledore to preserve his own life. I’m not sure what else you’d call it, though.
On another note, I’ve been re-reading Sorcerer’s Stone and it struck me that Bane the Centaur seems to feel that Harry’s death is written into the stars, although this is far from explicit. Just a thought. Another thought: Why am I on here when I have 3 finals to study for?
May 9th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
I’m still thinking Dumbledore let go of life before the curse ever hit him. Can it be murder he is guilty of if he tried to kill what as already dead? I dunno it all could have been one big show. I’m more for the black and white appraoch.
May 10th, 2007 at 8:23 am
Michal: Prayers and luck your way on your three finals!!
May 10th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Hello all. Regarding the previous thread that DD might not really be dead, JKR gave an interview recently where she explicitly states that he is truly dead, and even apologizes for nullifying the entire purpose of a website (dumbledoreisnotdead.com). I don’t remember where I read this and don’t have time to find it, but it should effectively end the speculation on that particular point.
May 10th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Luvssnape- thanks!
Esther- I think she’s said it more than once, even, yet people continue to speculate.
May 12th, 2007 at 8:09 am
I ultimately think Snape is good.
One thing I’ve been pondering on is this … J.K. Rowling said that it was not a coincidence, in regard to real world Muggle events, that Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald in 1945.
One major componet for the British during World War II was the double cross system with spies that I could see J.K. Rowling has used as a model for Snape’s character, if he is good (or even if he is bad).
By sometime in 1940, I believe, all of the Axis spies in Britain had been caught.
The British were able to turn most of them, at least the ones they decided not to imprison or execute, into spies for the Allies. Yet, they would still be acting as spies for Nazi Germany. So the Allies would have them tell somewhat accurate information, but since it wasn’t all accurate, it was a form of misinformation, with some of it being right for them to be credible but not enough so the Germans didn’t know exactly what was going on. The Double Cross System’s biggest success was in all of the pre-planning for the D-Day invasion keeping the Germans guessing on where, when the attack would take place, all the while knowing for the most part that something was going to take place.
I could see how Snape had been a Deatheater and either something made him want to go against them and turn to the Ootp, or he had been “caught” and turned in exchange for not going to Azkaban, etc. Either way, though, he still acts as a spy, if you want to call it, for the Deatheaters, but then is giving them misinformation, so to speak.
I hope this makes some bit of sense.
I don’t know if I would have ever thought about it in those terms or context if Rowling hadn’t made that comment that it had not been a coincidence that Grindelwald had been defeated in 1945.
May 15th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Way to go!!!!! Becky Rules!
May 30th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Ok, I know this is a little late, but I discovered podcasts about a month ago and have only just now gotten to this ep.
I definitely have to agree with Penny here. Snape is good. Not to say that he is a saint, or even a particular nice person, but he is on the side of good. I don’t think this is a black and white view either: he is gray because he is NOT a nice person but is still working for the good side.
I agree with Maya who said that we already have Peter Pettigrew as the save-his-own-skin-at-any-cost character. It seems to me that having Snape be the same would be a little redundant and not make much sense. I think it is Snape’s role as a character to redeem himself. I don’t think he will be a martyr though… It just seems a little out of his character to me…
I’d also like to point out that the whole Snape saving Harry from Quirrel thing (which is one of many reasons why I think Snape is good) can also be used to show that he is not just out for himself. The argument that I constantly use is this: Dumbledore did not know that Quirrel was jinxing Harry. Therefor, he could not possibly expect Snape to know this and save him. If Snape had chosen to just let Quirrel finish Harry, it’s not like DD would have been angry at/suspicious of him as Snape seems to imply to Bella in SE. I don’t see any motivation for this action other than the fact that he is truly on the “good” side.
July 13th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
severus snape rocks…………….. he is the most influential character of all times in any form of movie or novel. hats off 2 jkr. snape’s loyality towards dumbeldore nd his firm faith over snape is backbone of whole harry potter series.And ron nd hermione is best couple ever. sumtimes i wonder what lies in jkr’s mind having created such an epic. harry is ofcourse hero