Episode #29: Prophecies
Quite predictably, ever since we were introduced to The Prophecy in Book 5, it’s been the subject of controversy. Despite almost an entire chapter of Book 6 devoted to setting the record straight, questions still abound about what The Prophecy might mean. Could it be referring to Neville? (No.) Maybe it doesn’t have to come true? (No.) In this week’s podcast, we set the record straight.
A few old posts related to The Prophecy from the old HPProgs blog:
- Prophecy Boy: Why Neville is NOT The One.
- Prophecy Analysis: What are the logical implications of the language used in The Prophecy? Complete with Truth Table.
And the news:
- If you order Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows through Amazon, you are guaranteed to get it on time.
- Harry Potter World?
- First Scholastic Question up!
Make sure to check out the Prophecy 2007 Conference, August 2-5 in Toronto. We’ll be there! If you sign, make sure to tell them HPProgs sent ya’!
Shamless Plug of the Week: Preorder O.A.R.’s new album, Live From Madison Square Garden
You can listen to the podcast using the player below, or download directly as an mp3.
April 19th, 2007 at 6:59 am
Predictably… ha ha…
And at 39 minutes, you guys rock my world. (Especially now, when I’ve been compelled to begin listen to other, fine-but-not-as-good podcasts to the exclusion of much else.)
April 19th, 2007 at 7:18 am
Michal: Thanks! I was getting really nervous watching the clock…:) And podcasts do work well at this time of year.
April 19th, 2007 at 9:53 am
When Dumbledore is explaining the prophecy to Harry, he mentions that both the Longbottoms and the Potters had been approached three diffferent times by Voldemort to become Death Eaters, and both had rejected the offer three times. You had asked how the Potters had thrice defied the Dark Lord — their refusal to become Death Eaters fulfilled that. Since both were extremely powerful wizards, there is the possibility that they had battled Voldemort, but remember, the only real wizard we’ve been able to see actually provide any threat to Voldy is at this point Dumbledore.
April 19th, 2007 at 11:45 am
The link i provided isn’t newsworthy? I find this outrageous! You’ll comment on the R&D developments in light bending resulting in a practical cloak of invisibility but a news report of a cat riding a bus regularly and consistently in ENGLAND isn’t worth a whisper?
You’ll further speculation on a Theme park you don’t believe but you dismiss by ignoring a cat getting on a bus from the same stop and off at the same stop three times a week every week for the first four months of the year? Something you commented on as possible Kneasle activity!
I am padding my pockets looking for the respect i held for you.
April 19th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Elizabeth- did it specifically say that they were approached to become death eaters? I re-read that part last night before we podcasted but I don’t remember that. Interesting. Thanks.
Doasis- I am assuming your comment was tongue in cheek but if for some reason it wasn’t, honestly- if that piece of news had come up in my news search last night I would have remembered to report it. I hope you can find the respect- did you look in your car?
April 19th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
I believe so — it’s been a while since I’ve read that book, but I’m pretty sure that Dumbledore mentioned that they had been approached by Voldemort. In Book Six, it makes clear that Voldemort recruits Death Eaters (remember the five-year old who was killed by Greyback because his parents refused to be Death Eaters?), so maybe my (admittedly sleep-depraived) brain just filled in the blanks.
BTW — love the podcast! Keep up the good work!
April 19th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Greg- looked at your truth table. There is a simplification within it that is relevant to Harry’s ordeal up to this point.
“Neither can live while the other survives”.
Your locution treats ‘living’ sononomous with ’surviving’. Living also contains a connotation of quality. Insert this connotation into the prophecy: ‘neither can live in comfort while the other survives”.
While Harry survived on Privet Drive for ten years- V wasn’t living. Since Harry started at Hogwarts, essentially started living his life, Voldemort has been an obstruction to Harry’s life. The very first night at Hogwarts Harry had a nightmare. This veiw reinforces that they are mortal enemies. Book seven must involve one, or both dieing, it is the only way the story can actually END.
Looking at this conversely, that both survive while the other lives, is-i think- the basis for the ‘Harry is a horcrux’ theory. It’s bullox as V wouldn’t want to destroy his own life by killing Harry. None the less, seen this way as long as V lives Harry escapes death. Up to this point this has been true but not for lack of trying. As Harry turns the hunter it might come to light that sacrificing himself (not surviving) is the only was to ensure Voldemort can’t live. I think this is where you ground your “what the deathly hallows means” theory. Am i wrong?
April 19th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Greg and Penny,
) Anyways I have been jazzed all day long because you mentioned me on your podcast! It was the highlight of my birthday thanks!
I have to say that you made my birthday which is today! I was listening to your podcast at work and I freaked out when Greg mentioned me!!! (I am sorry though due to the strict library code of ethics I would have to cut off a limb before I could leak information about the last book before the release date
April 19th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Luvssnape- Who desides which limb? I don’t want to speak for anyone else but what’s your foot to me?
(This is ficisious i don’t condone dismemberment of our library staff for HP secrets. Now if a bomb and a clock were involved…)
April 19th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
oh Happy Birthday Luvssnape
April 19th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
Thanks Doasis for the birthday wishes!
April 19th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Good episode. Not much else to say… but Greg, I think Penny was right about Neville. She was saying (at least as I understood it) that without “marked as his equal,” the Prophesy *could* refer to Neville. In fact, it could potentially refer to even more people, though the “thrice defied” qualification probably thins the herd significantly. The only thing that really seperates Neville and Harry, I think, is Voldemort’s choice- which is obviously why Neville does not have the scar.
Also, about “thrice defied”- I don’t remember anything about Lily and James being recruited, though I could just be forgetting. Oh, and if you guys are driving to Toronto via NY, maybe we could meet up
April 19th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Happy birthday Luvsssnape! I wouldn’t want you to chop off anything either. I fully respect your Top Secret clearance to handle such sensitive information. Just don’t look under your bed as you might see me! BOO!
April 19th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
I’m kinda still half asleep but I was thinking I had the prophecy down and decided but this episode kinda confused me. (not hard to do) I believe that the incontrovertable truth. ( I’m happy gotta use that word again.) is that is about Harry hands down. Aside from the marked as an equal as Michal has stated above there is the fact that only the one that the prophecy is about could remove it from the shelve in the ministry. Yes Doasis you are wrong! Harry lives because Penny can’t remember her unargueable point. Besides I just wanted to yell your wrong.
I still think your way cool though. I always pictured your pockets as full as Luna Luvgoods with a little bit of everything in them. I figured you would know fer sure about the come be a death eater offers to the Potters and Longbottoms. Elizabeth I love being sleep deprived don’t you? Lastly Greg, you got a comment in early and I am so happy but only one sentence? Where are the meat and potatoes! You may not realize it but you are such a controversal figure that one good post and everybody would pounce on you I’m sure. Maybe I’m a little harsh on you, Oh heck no I’m not. I apologize half heartedly to anyone I forgot to pick on.
April 19th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Hey guys, great podcast as usual. It was especially humbling to hear Greg praise all the Canadianna our country has to offer (eg. The Beer Store, Strange Brew, etc. lol..) Anyhoo, I just wanted to post a link from JK Rowling’s site where she answered the question of what relevance Neville has as the almost-chosen one in the Harry Potter series. Basically, she states taht prophecies, in the context of her books are self-fulfilling in nature and therefore open to different perspectives and interpretation- that is their power, and ultimately their flaw as well. My question to everyone is how will Neville react to the news that the prophecy might have referred to him (if he indeed becomes aware of this in Deathly Hallows)- and did Snape really hear the full prophecy and only divuldge a certain amount to Voldemort, thereby securing Dumbledore’s trust and maintaining a certain balance of power in the first war, and indeed the second one as well. I do not necessarily think Snape’s motives and actions in the series have been completely altruistic.
Here is the text-only link to Rowling’s site (FAQ section):
http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view.cfm?id=84
P.S. Greg and Luvssnape- you had better watch it- I am pretty sure that the HPProgs community will not be able to raise the bail money needed to spring you guys from the big house if you incure JK Rowling’s wrath come July, lol…. patience is a virtue, an annoying one, but oh well…
April 20th, 2007 at 12:53 am
Well… I think it is official. I am hereby addicted to your podcast! Saw that the latest episode was up whilst at work yesterday and since I only have dial up at home, ended up parking out front of my Dad’s house at 7 this morning to hotwire his wireless broadband from the sidewalk, so I could listen to the latest episode during the commute. Felt a bit like James Bond with all the cloak and daggers, but knew if I entered my Dad’s house on the morning of my birthday, I would have been way late for work…
Wow, thanks Greg, for bringing up my ramblings! I must admit, though, that I clearly have selective hearing once an idea pops into my head, because I forgot about how JK debunked Snape being under the cloak that night. But I’m glad you still saw the sense in what I was trying to say. I have no shame in saying you put it so much better than I did, with respects to Dumbledore trying to instill house unity in Harry. Would also like to add that, whilst the presence of an Invisibility Cloak may not be physical in terms of things both Harry and Snape have had to witness, as a spy, Snape would have had to keep his true motivations INVISIBLE on a number of occasions… and maybe Dumbledore was trying to give Harry a bit of a taste of the torment Snape was going through, killing him when he (presumably) did not want to do the deed.
Irrespective of if Snape was at Godric’s Hollow, I still like the idea of James having given Dumbledore the Invisibility Cloak to better facilitate a silent guard around their home. As you will see from OotP chapter 26, an Invisibility Cloak (possibly the one found in the fake Moody’s trunk at the end of GOF) is deployed whilst the Order is guarding the Department of Mysteries (and perhaps at Privet Drive at the beginning…had ‘Dung actually been there). But back to Godric’s Hollow… say Wormtail had worked it so that HE was the one under the Cloak that night, ‘guarding’ the Potters, and he instead led Voldemort to them… and then, after the attack, Snape had filched the Cloak back from Pettigrew to present to Dumbledore as a show of good faith. Or something. Bottom line, I still think a number of Order members were privy to the Potter’s location, and that Sirius had masqueraded as Secret Keeper by handing out the hand-written notes by Peter. Ties in well with visitors to Grimmauld Place finding the house without the Secret Keeper actually being present. Again I think I’ve already gone there, so I am going to shut up about it now.
Anyhow… excellent discussion on the Prophecy! And remarkably astute observations back in 03, Greg – fascinating reading! The ‘happily ever after traditionalist’ in me wants to remain on the fence as to Harry’s ultimate fate, but I do agree that the Prophecy leaves open the possibility of both Harry and Voldemort dying. To take another view of ‘survives’… it has been firmly established in the series that people who love, and are loved, remain within those they leave behind after they are gone. Harry ‘found his father within him’ in POA, for instance, and ‘echoes’ of James and Lily helped their son in the graveyard a year later. From that view, Harry will always survive, because he has the power the Dark Lord knows not… He may physically die, but he will ‘survive’ in others… or it could be this selfless, fearless investment of himself (in others) that ultimately saves him from death completely, and that is his power. Just a thought.
Happy Birthday to Luvvsnape. Incidentally, it is my birthday today (Fri), so I was also chuffed to cop a mention as I was tuning in! Not sure what the story is with the librarian privileges and missing limbs (LOL) but one of my best friends’ husbands is printing the book here in Australia and whilst he can tell me certain things about how impossible it would be for him to sneak me into his office for the day, and how many hours of overtime he is currently pulling on the presses, I’m getting NOTHING! I do know how much the publisher has invested on security and how much overtime all the staff are pulling, though… lucky sods. My friend got paid nearly $100 an hour over Easter to print the book (is it just me, or is there something seriously wrong with that picture? LOL) I am tempted to quit my job and get him to give me a job on the presses… have no idea how to operate the machinery, but I can box the books *wink*
Doasis… agreed with your reasonings for why Harry could not be a Horcrux until I thought of it this way… what if, in destroying Harry, Voldemort regains that part of himself and is able to live (as a whole person… somewhat whole person). Not that I actually think Harry is a Horcrux anyway…
Greg in Toronto… great point about Snape’s motivations not being so clearly defined.
And… I am officially talking too much again and eating into ‘office’ time (but hey, it’s my birthday today, if they seriously thought I would do any work today, they were mistaken!!!). But on a side note… I will just so happen to be seeing you, Greg and Penny, at Prophecy in August
Heading O/S in July to do a HP fantrip, loiter in Edinburgh like a pathetic fangirl for the book launch, before Apparating over the pond for the conference (if you haven’t guessed from the lengths of my posts, I don’t do things by halves…). That’s if I don’t get arrested for storming my friend’s office at the printing press during my upcoming week off work…
- Danielle
P.S. I’m not really lost… rather ‘Lost in Adelaide’ is a name of a song by an Australian band (Spiderbait), and it just happened to come into my head at the precise moment I was trying to think of a handle!
April 20th, 2007 at 8:23 am
Happy Birthday Lost in Adelaide! Wow that would be awesome to say that you had “helped” print the last Harry Potter Book! I hope you have/had a wonderful Birthday!!!!
April 20th, 2007 at 8:33 am
I haven’t listened to the podcast yet, but speaking of prophecies, I’ve long wondered what it meant in the prophecy from PoA that the Dark Lord’s servant had been “chained these twelve years” –what kept Pettigrew in rat form? I thought from reading the book that it was his own cowardice, but I’ve wondered, from the wording of the prophecy, if maybe there’s another explanation.
Don’t know if you covered this or not, but it was my first thought when I read what your topic was.
April 20th, 2007 at 10:43 am
Ok I read everything! Happy birthday to Danielle, Luvssnape,Yamil and anyone else I may have missed. Apparently April was a big month for Potter fans eh? To Greg in Toronto, altruistic ? What are you some kind of school teacher I mean really making me break out the Thesaurus. Danielle you actually called Greg astute? How cool. Luvssnape all I have to say to you is why does snape got girl hair. I think Snape was a hippie enjoying free love at woodstock and could not have possibly ben at Godricks Hollow let alone reveal any secrets to Voldemort because he and Dumbledore were parting it up which incidently gave Jimmy Hendix the inspiration for Purple Haze. Anyways I am getting to my pont really soon so pay attention. I am asking you the studio audience why so many people are saying Harry will or must die in book 7 ? I ask Greg and he says because he says so. I ask Penny and she doesn’t remeber why but claims it is inargueable. So I am asking as nicely as I can to all my good friends here to state why they feel that way? I just don’t see it because he was the hero of J.K Rowling when most of the story was in her mind so many years ago. She said she knew the ending even at the begining and I can’t fathom a dead Harry being in her mind then or now. I mean if anyone has an attachment to this character it would be her and it would be like killing off partof herself. Also there is the kids book factor. The killing of Harry not only prevents any furtherment of the story (the only benefit) but also destroys the legacy of the whole series. I mean it would be like Oh yeah those Harry Potter Books. He dies. That would pretty much sum it up in all future conversations and destroy it’s proper place in classic history. I mean the only other book I can think of that has that kind of self sacrificing end for the main character is a Tale of Two Cities and really who wants to read that? Ok I’ll wait for some answers as this kept me awake all last night. Or you can just ignore me either way is fine. Probably doesn’t matter anyways……. Eeyore Aaron
April 20th, 2007 at 11:02 am
Happy Birthday LiA “Danielle”. Harry isn’t and can’t be a horcrux. If a fragment of Voldmort’s soul was contained within Harry, i suspect he would be able to fight it out with his compasionate nature- just like at the end of Order. I was simply articulating the logical foundation of the notion to better unearth the rational that both have to anihilate each other. (It was either this or argure from christian allegory which doesn’t satisfy some within the audience) $100 an hour seems high but then again the value of the American green back is falling to other currencies.
Toronto Greg- I have been arguing that for months. Snape is about his own betterment and his behavior is successfully neutral that no matter who won, Dumbledore or Voldemort, he would reap benefits. I think his particular snark at Harry is because he is the famous one, not Snape, for vanquishing V. Looking like James Potter is only fuel to that fire.
We have been waxing poetic for Canada for a while now and yet nobody mentions your Anthem is so much cooler than ours. I hope Ottawa makes the finals so American TV can capture how an anthem should be revered- Edmunton rocked the house last year!
Arron- your groggy ramblings were less articulate than ussual. No blood no foul.
Lastly something on Neville. He may not be ‘the chosen one’ but Bellatrix is the strongest of the Death Eaters and i argue a dark wizard in her own right. doesn’t that mean to say then that Neville has been marked and he has his own mortal enemy. I say he thinks so. After learning she escaped from Azkaban he trained within the D.A. harder than before. He involved himself assisting Ginny against Umbridge’s inquisitorial squad. He went to the Ministry especting a fight and targeted Bella when he had the chance. I will find Deathly incomplete in Neville doesn’t get his pound of flesh.
I guess on three difiances:
A) not joining with Voldemort
B) passively fighting against V within the Order
C) actively fighting V at Godric’s Hollow
April 20th, 2007 at 11:13 am
Aaron I have answered this question. I already provided an interpretation of the prophecy that says they both die. Christ died in the end how has that story endured? Hercules died. Odin died. Gilgamesh died. A heroes story ends in death. Jo isn’t too loyal to her characters- she killed Sirius because she didn’t know what else she could do with him- its on her site.
April 20th, 2007 at 11:18 am
I’m just saving myself Doasis>>>:)
April 20th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Yeah but Sirus isn’t Harry. Harry is the boy wizard that took her from single mom on welfare to whatever she is now. Back to the prophecy, its greatest power is also it’s weakness in how it can be interpreted and self fullfilling. Basically anything goes. Hercules din’t die in the disney movie did he? He got the girl and lived happily ever after. I see what your saying but looking at it removing my desire to want him to survive and taking as neutral a point of view as I can I end up with the same conculsion. Now I am not sure why so many people a lot deeper in the books like you have decided this but it seems more than not and was just wondering why? I see your points but still not what convinced you of this possibility.
April 20th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Wow. April really is a big birthday month at hpprogs. Happy Birthday LuvsSnape and Danielle! So That means that Luvssnape’s half birthday is my birthday. Cool. (The only reason I am obsessed with Half Birthday’s is that my childhood best friend still calls me up on my half birthday to wish me a Happy Half Birthday…I can always count on it). DAnielle- can’t wait to meet you at PRophecy!! So far that is two of our listeners that will be there. Woo hoo!
I think Greg and I are going to have to devote another episode to Harry dying (or not) at the end of DH. Like I said in the comments section of the last podcast (and Aaron has not let me live it down), I came up with an unarguable reason why Harry has to die a few weeks ago but for the life of me, I can’t remember what it is. I will spend the weekend searching the far recesses of my mind that don’t contain movie quotes, song lyrics, and tv characters to try to find my theory. In the meantime, the rest of you can feel free to continue to fight it out here.
Greg in T- I believe I alluded to this (or meant to) in the last episode but I think Neville will fulfill his destiny- whether it had anything to do with the prophecy or not, by killing Bellatrix Lestrange. JKR might not give us complete closure as far as doling out justice to ALL characters, but I firmly believe that poor Neville whose parents were aurors-extrordinaire, who was thought to be a squib for the first 11 years of his life, who couldn’t cut it with Snape (or his grandmother) who couldn’t remember even with his remembrall (I should get one of those by the way) will have his day in the spotlight when he defeats Voldemort’s right hand woman. Poor Neville had to visit his parents in St. Mungos= his only tangible gift from his mother was a gum wrapper- that has to create the kind of hatred and desire to get even with their torturer. I for one am looking forward to seeing Neville get even. And to answer your question, Greg in T- I think that if Neville does learn that the prophecy might have been meant for him, it will give him even more reason to kill Lestrange.
Mrs. Lovegood- I think your assumption is correct. I think Wormtail’s cowardice is what “kept him chained” those 12 years. But then again, it could also refer to his devotion to Voldemort. Not sure. In any event, it is an interesting question.
April 20th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Aaron you said “Harry is the boy wizard that took her from single mom on welfare to whatever she is now.”
That’s a good point and another reason for Jo to kill off Harry. If she wants a career outside of HP he has to end it. Can anyone name a Tolkien work that isn’t LotR? No and he died before he became popular, Jo will never be able to leave this world for another unless she makes closure irreconciable.
I hate Disney- don’t get me started.
I don’t care if your convinced or not. I think Harry’s gonna die and i’ll take my lickings if thats not the case. But i want my free t-shirt when i’m right.
April 20th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Hey everyone! Thanks for the birthday wishes.
Aaron… yes, April does seem to be the month for Potter fans… I’d consult the stars, but it’s gone 4am and my inner eye is asleep.
doasis… OK. Now I am with you. I must have misread you earlier… easy enough to do when you’re reading at work and somewhat preoccupied with getting caught. Don’t know how much better I will fare at this ungainly hour, but I do get what you mean - if indeed they have to kill each other, then Harry can’t be the Horcrux. Got it! LOL Who said sleep deprivation couldn’t bring moments of clarity?
Yes, I agree… $100 an hour is a bit steep… might have been exaggerating *just* a tad. But it’s not far off… not that the rate applies every day… just for overtime claimed on a Public Holiday (something like triple time?!?). Either way, there is something seriously wrong with people getting PAID to lay eyes on the books before the rest of us mere mortals. I’ve told my friend I would sign all the waivers and gag orders and security declarations in the world and come box the books for free while I was on leave from my paying job, but he didn’t seem to realise I was being serious. LOL.
Nice points about Neville and Bellatrix. It provides a very nice paralell to the battle between Voldemort and Harry, and I will be with you on that soap box if she doesn’t get her comeuppance. I imagine the Weasleys would have a similar score to settle with Greyback, too. Though I think Lupin deserves to take the first pound of flesh from him… and I, personally, would be rather remiss if we don’t get to see more ‘angry’ Remus (think back to how surprised the trio were by Lupin’s tone towards Pettigrew in the POA book).
Good guesses on the three defiances… I have always wondered what James and Lily might have done to ‘thrice defy’ Voldemort. The line “Born to those who have thrice defied him” seems to imply that they did so prior to their son’s birth… but what if it didn’t? What if this fragment was not so much referring to Harry’s physical birth (the repeated reference to the seventh month does that quite well on its own) but rather is a reference to the birth of the POWER needed to vanquish the Dark Lord…???
Dumbledore has already told Harry about powers he has (i.e. Parseltongue / the protection from his mother’s sacrifice) that he was not born with. So, what if said power could not come until James/Lily had thrice defied Voldemort (and accepted the consequences)? Take this little transcripted quote from POA:
(Chapter Nine: Grim Defeat)
‘Not Harry, not Harry, please not Harry!’
‘Stand aside, you silly girl… stand aside, now…’
‘Not Harry, please no, take me, kill me instead…’
Numbing, swirling white mist was filling Harry’s brain… What was he doing? Why was he flying? He needed to help her… she was going to die… she was going to be murdered…
He was falling, falling through the icy mist.
‘Not Harry! Please… have mercy… have mercy…’
A shrill voice was laughing, the woman was screaming, and Harry knew no more.
(Chapter 12: The Patronus)
‘Expecto Patronum!’ Harry yelled. ‘Expecto Patronum! Expecto-’
But the classroom and the Dementor were dissolving… Harry was falling again through thick white fog, and his mother’s voice was louder than ever, echoing inside his head – ‘Not Harry! Not Harry! Please – I’ll do anything! -’
‘Stand aside – stand aside, girl -’
OK… now note how the wording on both Voldemort telling Lily to move and Lily’s response differs slightly. This could just be because an infant’s recollection (even when helped by soul-sucking Dark Creatures) is prone to being unreliable, or it could be a reflection of the author not properly synchronising her flashback sequences… or, it could be indicative of Voldemort telling Lily to ’stand aside’ more than once…. and Lily defying him each time.
Three times perhaps? And that says nothing for the number of times she actually says ‘No’ or ‘Not Harry!’ etc.
Let’s say Lily refused two of Voldemort’s direct orders… and for good measure let’s count James Potter’s ‘welcoming party’ downstairs as defiance number 3.
Would be ironic, after all, if Harry would never have had ‘the power to vanquish the Dark Lord’ had Voldemort not gone after him…
Be interested to hear what much-more-awake people think of that latest hair-brained idea to spout from my rather insane logic…
- Danielle
April 20th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
A wise man offers to answer three questions. Homer asks “Any question?” The wiseman replies, “Yes.” “Really?” asks Homer. “Yes” says the wiseman. “Really?” asks Homer. “Yes now begone,” says the wise man.
LiA- I see what your saying but unlike the wiseman i would consider it a single act of defiance and follows up with sticking to the line in the sand.
But i’m glad you see my point.
I still hate Disney.
April 20th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
The Hobbit?
That isn’t considered LOTR, is it?
April 20th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Oh my? You know Doasis you could have just said
April 20th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
Sorry dropped my mose and it zapped out an incomplete comment. Here is the whole thing. Oh my? You know Doasis you could have just said
April 20th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
gee not my day. Oh my? You know Doasis you could have just said
April 20th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Gee I dunno why. I guess your right and acknowledge your greatness. Then we could have happily gone to watch Fantasia together. You are definitely the 1st one I would want at my toga party with your extensive passion for Greek philosopee. Seriously though I do consider you somewhat of an oracle on this subject even when you are in a bad mood. When I win the free T-shirt I will give it to you anyways because in spite of your harsh tones and denials I know you really do care. When you wish apon a star, makes no difference who you are……. lalalala BTW I was asking what convinced you not for you to convince me. Looks like you drew fiest blood. Wink Good stuff Danielle. Mrs. Luvgood I would have never known you hadn’t listened to the podcast if you hadn’t told me. Oh well to steal a doasis quote TTFN AAAh it isnt workin
April 22nd, 2007 at 8:36 am
Sure you know, but the new trailer for OotP is out.
I happen not to watch the movies… but I’ll be darned if that don’t look pretty spectacular.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:01 am
WOW!!!! Michal, I think you are going to have to break your purist ideals and watch that. It looks unbelievable!!
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:42 am
http://news.scotsman.com/entertainment.cfm?id=618932007
FANS OF Harry Potter have been dreaming about riding a Nimbus 2000, catching a golden snitch and winning a game of Quidditch since creator JK Rowling invented the sport 10 years ago.
Now aficionados of the boy wizard may not have to wait much longer. Universal Studios is seeking a deal with Rowling to build a $500m Harry Potter mini theme park in Florida.
Rowling is believed to have been in negotiations with Universal Studios since 2005 over potential sites and the park’s contents. Earlier talks with Disney, which has a Disneyworld in Orlando, are understood to have fallen through because the giant American leisure corporation wanted total control of the project.
The new Potter land is likely to be incorporated into Universal’s existing Islands of Adventure attraction, which already hosts areas themed on Steven Spielberg’s Jurassic Park and Marvel comic superheroes. Island of Adventure is close to Universal Studios, the company’s main attraction and the third biggest-theme park in America.
Peter Alexander, a former vice president of Universal Studios and founder of a theme park design consultancy, said: “People keep screeching that it’s an entirely separate park, but according to Steve Spielberg, who we talked to about it, he says it’s going to be a ‘land’ within the confines of the existing Islands of Adventure theme park. If it’s a ‘land’ it will cost at the very least $500m.”
Alexander estimates that Rowling stands to earn up to £9m a year if the park goes ahead, to add to her already colossal £576m fortune.
“If I was negotiating for her I would ask for 5% of the gate fee,” he said. “With an attraction like that getting around six million people a year paying £30 per head, that’s £180m.”
Sources say that both Universal Studios and Rowling, who owns the rights to the Harry Potter franchise, are agreed on the principle of the mini-park, but are still hammering out the details of a settlement.
Alexander, who has previously inquired about the possibility of a Potter theme park on behalf of a client, said: “Either she is a very shrewd businessperson or she is surrounded by people who are.”
Once an agreement is reached, the attraction could be built in as little as 18 months.
What attracts theme park companies to the project is the huge, global Potter fan base.
More than 325 million Potter books have been sold around the world, and it has been translated into 62 languages. The final title in the seven-book series, Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows, will be published on July 21.
Theme park experts believe that like Mickey Mouse and the George Lucas-inspired Star Wars, Pottermania will have longevity. US bookstore Barnes and Noble has already received more than 500,000 pre-orders for the final novel.
Not only will the books continue to appeal to new generations of children, but the associated films have become holiday-time classics. The first four films have grossed £2bn at the box office with three more to follow.
The film of Harry Potter And The Order Of The Phoenix - the fifth novel in the series - will be released on July 13, ensuring maximum publicity for the book launch 10 days later.
Alexander said: “The property [Harry Potter] has legs - he is not going to be less popular in years to come. What is good about it is that it has family appeal and if they put some good rides in to the theme park there will be teenage and young adult appeal too.”
Alexander believes making a Harry Potter attraction part of the bigger Islands of Adventure is the right commercial strategy.
“Usually a theme park devoted to one subject doesn’t do very well because people want a variety of experiences,” he said. “In France they made a Smurf theme park. They expected two million people per year but never got more than 800,000.”
It closed last year.
The concept of a Potter attraction stretches back at least four years. At the time, reports suggested Disney approached Rowling with a project, possibly to be built in Singapore.
However, the project fell through. Alexander, also a former employee of Disney, believes it was due to Rowling’s reputed protectiveness over her creations. “Disney would not want to cut her in to the action creatively,” he said.
It took several years for Rowling to allow the books to be made into films by the Warner Bros studio, for fear of “Americanising” Harry. In 2001 she said: “I’m not against the idea of a film - I love films. The vital thing for me was that it would be true to the book.”
Alexander said Universal was more used to yielding creative control to get a deal but that might be slowing down the negotiation process. “Universal did not ask [Rowling] for permission to do the park, they just came to her with a pitch,” he explained. “Probably she did not like their designs and they had to start over.”
He thinks Rowling would have objected to the proposed rides at the theme park if they did not replicate the action and adventure of the books.
Universal Studios, Warner Bros and Rowling all declined to comment.
Buckle up and hang on to your hat
Potter fans online are already speculating about the rides. Here are some of their ideas:
CRAZY QUIDDITCH
Giant quaffles, bludgers and golden snitches in which guests ride in a quidditch match where they are the ball.
FRED AND GEORGE WEASLEY’S LASER FUN HOUSE
Play laser wand tag in this mirrored maze, but watch out for dragons and trolls along the way.
AZKABAN PRISON
Prisoners find themselves in a spin on this high-speed whirligig.
SEARCH FOR THE PHILOSOPHER’S STONE
Encounter living chessmen and an unconscious troll as you take a boat ride in search of the Stone.
GRINGOTTS BANK GHOST TRAIN
Hang on to your hat as the Gringotts goblins guide you on a miniature indoor mine train.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Sheesh, all of these people that are new fans (woo!) sure do have lots to say!! LOL I’m really too lazy to read all of those lenthy posts, so I’ll just say Excellent podcast, Penny and Greg! I just love the whole idea of prophecies, and being able to decide your own future, and the psychological impacts of actually knowing your future–it’s fun!
But anyway, I know i’m excited to hear those entries from the contest! LOL
Bye guys!
April 24th, 2007 at 11:20 am
WOW! I have to admit, part of the reason I like your podcast is because I like the fact that you’re not movie-lovers. Blech! BUT — just watched as much of the trailer as stupid Windows would let me and it looks amazing. Absolutely amazing!
Keep up the good work on the Podcast — I love listening to you guys banter (my husband and I also met in high school, but didn’t start dating until years later) and it helps me formulate my own theories.
E
April 24th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Let´s see. Well, first of all I am an avid fan from Mexico City. Love the books. The movies, I can live without. But you guys, really rock. I started listening to you one month ago, and I´ve been working my way backwards ever since. Every cast is fun and the dynamics between you 2 is phenomemal.
Being from Mexico I´m unable to write a review of your podcast on iTunes, but I did vote for you on Podcast Alley. I am also telling everyone I know who cares about HP to give a listen to your work.
As I can hardly wait for July 21st, I found myself pretty much desperately looking for a place to read educated guesses about what the final instalment of the HP saga would bring. My first stop was that other HP Podcast (as I would not type the “M” word here). I was very much dissapointed by the level of the discussion (Once, one of the hosts commented “The new book is 784 pages long, 7 more than 777!”). So I went on to listen to the one produced by Harry Latino… same thing. And then I found you.
That was a great day, let me tell you!. There is a great deal about those books that needs commenting, and you are the right people to do the commenting. On one of your more recent podcasts you drew a paralell between Douglas Adams´”The Restaurant at the End of the Universe” and the ethical dilemmas in House Elves lives. That was what really got me hooked… and I will not let go.
You guys do a great job, love you voices and the chemistry you show is no less than magic. Please keep on a it for a long time to come, or better said, keep on prognosticating!!
April 24th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Thanks for the link, Dee. What I can’t figure out is why does Universal own the rights to HP? What about WB?
Spenser- are you still out there? We’ve missed hearing from you!
Hi Elizabeth- yeah, I think the trailers are going to change a lot of minds about the movies.
Welcome amargado@Mexico! We love our international listeners. Thank you so much for the kind words. We are glad you are enjoying the podcast- we are enjoying doing it. We look forward to hearing some of your thoughts on our prognostications!
April 25th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
I’m here! Sorry that I seem to be MIA, school recently has been really hectic (me and Joye Beth are graduating in about 3 1/2 weeks, so that’s been taking lots of time!)
But I would be commenting on the new trailers in the other post, but since I am writing in this one, I’ll just have to add my thing here– I LOVE the newest one! I’m like extremely excited! What i’m most excited about I believe is the fact that more magic is going to be in this movie, which isn’t seen much once you think about it in the previous films. I’m psyched about Bellatrix, just from the few scenes she was in in the trailer, she looks amazing! woo
October 9th, 2007 at 2:11 am
Hi all!!
What do you think about Tokio Hotel? >:)
October 15th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
I couldn’t understand some parts of this article Episode #29: Prophecies, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.