Episode #25: Who’s Afraid of Big Bad Slytherin?
Sure, they’re the bad guys (well, not the bad guys, but they certainly get a bum rap), but are they really all that bad? Maybe they’re just misunderstood. What are the essential characteristics of the Slytherins, is there anything at all redeemable about them, and how will they figure in the final showdown with their sometime-Master, Lord Voldemort.
In the News:
- Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows will be 784 pages and green (that isn’t the color of the cover though)
- OoTP video game seems pretty cool.
- Greg won’t be able to fulfill his dream of playing Hermione Granger in the sixth and seventh Potter movies.
- Potter contest for kids in the U.K.
The blog post of the week goes to our friends over at Sirius Discussion, a brand new Harry Potter podcast. Make sure to check out their first episode!
You can listen to the podcast using the player below, or download it directly as an mp3.
Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.
March 22nd, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Awesome job with the podcast guys. You just get better and better with each episode. It seems that the excitement in your voices grows as the release date gets closer. See I can be nice just don’t get used to it.
Muggle Love Aaron
March 22nd, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Hi Penny and Greg,
I just wanted to say that I love your podcast. I listen to all of them. I loved the 24th podcast even though I have never watched 24. You are both hilarious. I also voted for you at podcast alley. Keep up the good work. You make my day when I listen to you both at work.
Also this week’s podcast was perfect. I would listen every week even if you talked about the same topic over and over! You are just that entertaining!!!
Thanks again,
Luvssnape
March 22nd, 2007 at 2:05 pm
hey, i think ur podcast is awesome. im from england and your English accent is pretty rubbish. But anyway your podcast is awesome, although can you do some really controversial topis. just a request
thanx alot
March 22nd, 2007 at 2:14 pm
o and your scottish accent is average at best
March 22nd, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Mark: Codswallop! Penny just told me an idea she had that we’re going to have to do to put all you Brits in the hotseat for a change, it’s going to be good!
But seriously, what are some of the controversial topics you would like to have discussed? Please let us know, we’re always looking for good ideas for shows. You can comment here, or email us at harrypotterprogs AT yahoo DOT com.
March 22nd, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Cheers Penny & Greg! Thanks Very Much for the plug! I really appreciate all of the complements and comments on our show. You’re right, we’ve been working on this thing for a few months now. I do have one correction — We’re from Massachusetts
Anyway, great episode! I really liked the theme w/ Ep. 24. And Greg, nice Scottish Accent.
March 22nd, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Hi Penny and Greg. I look forward to your podcast every week! A friend and I were recently discussing this, and I thought you might have some good insight into the question of how Voldemort will eventually die…or will he? As Dumbledore has said, there are things worse than death (not an exact quote)…but it also seems like Voldemort needs to die (otherwise why go after the horucruxes?). Will he be kissed by a dementor? Will someone else kill Voldemort besides Harry (sacrificing themselves for him and the greater good)? Or will he be tricked into taking a love potion and explode because he can’t handle the emotion?
March 22nd, 2007 at 6:30 pm
I really like your podcast but your frequent Mugglecast bashing makes you sound pathetic and envious. It certainly isn’t impressive that you find yourselves superior to a group of teenagers.
March 22nd, 2007 at 6:59 pm
Kimba- if you’ll listen closely each time, you will notice that one of us certainly is NOT mugglecast bashing. One of us eagerly awaits that podcast each week, so fret not. There isn’t much competition- they are fantastic at what they do. I wish every day that I could have had that much fun as a teenager.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:11 pm
If you’re looking for a topic, I have one I haven’t seen discussed: The names. JKR worked long and hard on the names of the characters and places in the series. Some of them are well known and obvious, like Voldemort. I also knew that Remus Lupin was a werewolf from the first because of his name. But there is more to be unearthed there.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:26 pm
So, you guys should come down to Bowling Green, because it’s beautiful down here and it was like 75 degrees today.
And btw, I’m pretty sure that if you guys do decide to have an event, then Spenser and me will be driving up there lol-even though I haven’t talked to him about it, but I’m sure he’d be up for a road trip
Love you guys!!
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:23 am
Pat: Thanks!
Trace: If you haven’t already, check out our post/podcasts on our Deathly Hallows theory. We should rehash it one of the upcoming podcasts for new listeners. The theory pretty much spells out how we think Voldie is going down.
Kimba: I once challenged a six year-old to an all out best of seven Uno tournament, so teenagers are nothing to me!
Raffy: that’s an excellent suggestion! I’m going to start doing some research. This will either be next or next to next podcast.
Joye Beth: Is Bowling Green really “down” from Baltimore? I would have thought it was “up”, or at the very least to the side. Either way, it would be cool!
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:27 am
Good show, guys! I did a little “sorting” on the topic of Slytherin House to see if, as you suggested, they may be getting a bad wrap. This is what I found:
In Philosopher’s Stone the sorting hat sings of Slytherin by suggesting that: “Perhaps in Slytherin you’ll make your real friends, those cunning folk use any means to achieve their ends.”
In OotP, when the Mr. Hat, (no relation to South Park), sings his little jingle about the 4 houses he informs us that Slytherin said: “We’ll teach just those whose ancestry is purest” and then later in the song he also sang that, “Slytherin took only pure-blood wizards of great cunning, just like him”.
Finally, in GoF, he sang: “And power-hungry Slytherin loved those of great ambition.”
Now, what I take from that is that the first and most important house requirement for Slytherin is simply that the student be descended of pureblood. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they are bad, does it? That would be akin to saying that someone who is full-blooded Sicilian, such as myself, is in the mafia. (I could draw several other parallels here, but this one seems safest and most PC.) Granted, the sorting hat also said that the ‘folks’ in Slytherin are “cunning”, and I know that could be a trait that is devoted to the used of perpetuating evil, but it doesn’t necessarily HAVE to be, does it? It could also just as easily be used by a shrewd business person to further his/her career. Unquestionably Slytherin, himself, was “power-hungry”, but does that mean that every student that was ever sorted into his house was as well? I think that’s quite a stretch.
I believe that all Slytherins SEEM evil because the only ones we’ve gotten to know the Malfoys and their posse. (And maybe MOST in the house are selfish and self-serving.) Still, I think that by the sheer laws of averages we have to be willing to admit that not ALL Slytherins can be evil. That is to say, at least not when they are sorted into the house – after a year or 2, even those with that best intentions may succumb to peer-pressure if he/she is not strong-willed in their conviction NOT to be evil. I don’t know about that…..and, really, I’m just playing devil’s advocate with the rest, but I DO think that there has to be a few Slytherins who just want to graduate and become dentist or something like that. Perhaps the bigger question is that: if every witch/wizard that comes out of Slytherin IS bad, then why on earth would Dumbledore even allow the house to remain in existence? Hmmmm…prognosticate amongst yourselves. ;P
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:48 am
Penny: That’s true – it is only one of you. Maybe ONE of you is jealous of his wife listening to cute young boys every week! *wink*
Greg: And are you still bitter about your defeat?
Back to the topic:
It was a good point you had about Sirius and Hagrid’s comment about evil wizards all coming from Slytherin. Why would he say that when Sirius was thought to be one of the most evil wizards of all? Strange. But even though Sirius was redeemed, Pettigrew came from Gryfindor and he’s pretty damn evil.
I think the muggle equivalent of Slytherins would be people who become right-wing political strategists and wealthy TV evangelists (think Karl Rove and Benny Hinn)
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Nice episode. I think a big problem with the Slytherins is that we just don’t know very much about them. Harry’s never been inclined to look for the good in any Slytherin, much less befriend one, so the readers are left with a clipped and cryptic picture. Slughorn seems a bit out of the Snape-mold, but he’s never cast in a particularly posistive light either.
I’d love to go to a Progs gathering… don’t suppose you’d care to shift it to the tri-state area…
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Kimba- I think ONE Of us is definitely sick of the other one saying, “they’re just such a good podcast!” It drives him crazy.
As we mentioned in this episode, Greg and I both have a horribly competitive streak. We take no mercy and yes, I have made my almost 8 year old son cry (or come close to it) in the “punch buggy” game. We are vicious.
Angie- good to hear from you again! What a prognostication. You basically said everything I would have wanted to say in this weeks episode had I been able to formulate my thoughts a little better. I had all of those quotes printed out in front of me- they just never really made it out of my mouth. In any event, I am in complete agree ment with you.
Michal- good points on slytherin. and BTW, you can make the 3 1/2 hour trip down here (yes, it is hard for NYers to cross the Verazanno, but you can do it!!).
Greg- Bowling Green is in Kentucky so yes it is down from here.
Welcome, Trace Paper! listen to those episodes. I am not sure if we answered your question. I think I know wehre you are going with this. Let us know because I would be more than willing to address this topic.
And Pat- I answered you in e-mail but I will say it out loud again: I guess that is why you don’t have a good Rhode Island accent!
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:23 pm
I’m pretty sure Bowling Green is in Ohio.
Angie: Interesting. If I understand correctly, you would like to propose that the defining characteristic of Slytherin is one’s bloodline, rather than one’s character. It would be an interesting distinction, all the three other houses hold to the idea that we are what our choices make us, while Slytherin felt that one is destined to be what they are. And therefore friction. But I guess I’m not so sure only because wasn’t the Sorting Hat going to put Harry in Slytherin? And Harry is not a pureblood…unless we don’t know something important about Lily. But that would be an interesting distinction. Penny, please remind me to mention this in the next podcast.
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Greg. There is a Bowling Green in Ohio and incedentally, Chris Hoyles the best cather the O’s have ever seen is from there. But these guys are from Kentucky. Gosh, do I have to pay attention to everything for you?
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:38 pm
That is Catcher, not cather.
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:19 pm
WHEN LEARNING YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT SLYVERINS I EXPECTED YOU TO MENTION REASONS WHY D>UMBRIDGE WAS A MEMBER OR NOT> GREG I REALLY WISH YOU WOULD LET PENNY JUST DO THE NEWS AND NOT TALK OVER HER LIKE YOU DO WITH EVERYTHING ELSE_IT WOULD TAKE ABOUT SEVEN MINUTES OFF YOUR PODCAST TIME> I LIKE THE PODCAST BECAUSE OF YOUR INIGHT SO I HOPE IM NOT BEING TOO CRITICAL> ITS NOT LIKE GREGS ARGUMENT WASNT LIFTED FROM THE PHILOSOPHY OF HOGARTS BOOK YOU MENTIONED A FEW PODCASTS BACK!
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:30 pm
SLITHERINS SLYVERINS ITS NOT LIKE I THINK REAVENCLAW IS THE BEST HOUSE
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Slughorn has some issues but I think he’s basically a good-hearted person. I think he was really ashamed about telling Tom about horcruxes. I think his role in a large way was to show us that not all slytherins are “evil”. Sometimes they’re just annoying.
And I agree with Doasis – Greg, stop talking over Penny!
What exactly is the punch buggy game?
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:43 pm
REAVENCLAW RAVENCLAW IT THINK I WILL MISPELL THE REST OF HOUSES ANOTHER DAY
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:19 pm
Kimba makes a great point. Horace Slughorn is a good person he is concerned with advancement and prestige and the trimmings of a good life but he doesnt step on everybody_just ignore them.
D. Umbridge is another great example of not “evil” Slytherins (i got it). Her biasis are clearly towards the house look at who is in her inquistion squad_Slytherins. But she isnt helping the dark lord just protecting the public image of the Ministry while advancing her own career.
This drives home the point that if your not actively against Voldemort then your pasively helping him.
Also Greg I disagree with you when you say Voldemort made a Horcrux talking with Dumbledore in his office. I think V was cursing the DADA position in that act. This means to say that the seven parts of Voldemorts soul are
a) Voldemort
b) Nagini
c) the Diary
d) the Ring
e) the Locket uncovered by RAB
f) the cup of Hufflepuff (in the company of ice creamer Fortescue)
g) the wand on a purple pillow in the display window of Olivander the wand maker Harry noticed in when he first visited to buy his own wand. I think this wand was once owned by Rowena Ravenclaw. Olivander and Fortescue fled together. They obtained these relics when Voldemort was working for B&B. V gave them these items knowing they will treasure them and keep his soul fragments safe.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:25 pm
When it comes to the Horcruxes, I am of the opinion that Voldemort managed to get relics from ALL of the Hogwarts’ founders- I just dont think that he is the type of wizard to have abandoned his master plan, so I think the pieces of Voldy’s soul reside in:
a) Voldemort himself
b) the Diary- destroyed by Harry in Book 2
c) The ring- destroyed by Dumbledore, just prior to the events of Book 6
d) The Slytherin locket uncovered by RAB, which resides either at Grimmauld Place, or with Mundungus Fletcher (presently in Azkaban and perhaps retained at the Ministry or in his posession), or perhaps sold to Aberforth Dumbledore while in Hogsmeade in Book 6.
e) Hufflepuff’s cup (location unknown- possibly the muggle orphanage he grew up in or the Riddle House?)
f) possibly the wand on the purple pillow display in the window of Ollivander’s (after all, Ollivander disappeared in Book 6 and im sure he was kidnapped for an important reason). I believe the wand may be the Ravenclaw relic. The wand was mentioned in the “Diagon Alley” chapter in book 1.
g) Something of Gryffindor’s (that could be possibly alive)- and this is the one im really stuck on. I dont think that Voldemort would use Nagini as a horcrux as a snake can easily be destroyed and is therefore being used as a red herring by Jo who is simply trying to expalin to readers that a Horcrux can be contained within an organism of some kind. I am not of the opinion that all of Dumbledore’s analysis can be held as gospel and that he can make mistakes. I don’t think it can be the sword as it had been concealed by the Sorting Hat and I find it hard to believe that Dumbledore wouldn’t notice magical traces on the sword that identified it as a horcrux. For a while I believed that Harry himself was a horcrux, but im finding a lot of logistical problems with that theory so im not too sure- plus, I think Jo stated that Harry was not a decendant of Gryffindor.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Bowling Green in Ohio is close to Sandusky Ohio. My father made me go there for a tour of the school when I was researching colleges in the 80’s. SFC and I are from Ohio originally..
d
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Greg, You talked in this podcast about “Fifth Element” is one of the other best Gary Oldman movies? You never even mentioned “Bram Stoker’s Dracula”!!!! Next to his role as Sirius Black, Gary Oldman is an AWESOME Dracula! I think I actually like him better in Dracula. Just giving my two cents. Keep up the good work guys!
March 24th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Gah! I can’ BELIEVE I’ve fallen behind on listening to the podcasts, and posting comments and whatnot! So this weekend I have been catching up on the past couple o’ podcasts!
So, I must say excellent work as always, guys! Even though this is old old news, I really loved your Time Travelling episode, I believe I actually completely understood it for like the first time, ever– nice job on explaining it, Greg!
And 24 does sound like a wretched show… just the premise of a whole season being in one day sounds out there to me… meh. haha
But, you are both correct–there is a Bowling Green, Ohio, and a Bowling Green, KY (which me and JB reside in), and we are south of you all ^^ But, I would totally travel to do an event or something, it would be amazing! lol
And I think I laughed the hardest these past couple of episodes when I heard Greg’s life dream to play the role of Hermione Granger! THat was great
But anyway, I’m babbling trying to catch up on all of this! But anyway, I’m excited to listen to the next podcast! Woo!
-Spens
March 24th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Yes, Gary Oldman makes an AMAZING Dracula! You guys need to get that DVD!
Good Episode. There’s really not a lot other than that I can say about this one in particular…other than if Emma wouldn’t have done the last two films, I would SO give Greg some good competition! =P
March 24th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
I can’t believe I neglected to mention Gary Oldman’s turn as Dracula, that was indeed a spectacular performance (too bad Keanu dragged the whole movie down…).
March 24th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Luvsnape- I failed to welcome you! Glad you like the podcast- we are glad to hear from you.
Doasis- I am going to stand up for Greg here, lately he has been working hard not to actually interrupt me during the news lately. And as far as his comments during the news, I actually like them. I look at them as part of our weekly Harry Potter discussion. But I do appreciate your concern. As far as Delores Umbridge goes-according to the HP Lexicon, it is unknown whether Umbridge was in Slytherin but she did “employ” Slytherins in her inquisitorial squad. My only thought with this is that she was a very big part of the Fudge ministry who were doing anythign and everything in their power to quash the rumors/talk that Voldemort had returned. Harry was at the heart of the rumors. It would make sense that the Slytherins would be happy to help her especially when the majority of the people she was punishing were Gryffindors.
Kimba- I agree with you about Slughorn. I think he also definitely falls into the category of being out for himself- he is always connecting himself with high powered wizards/witches, name dropping, etc. But once again, that doesn’t make him evil.
OK, the Punch buggy game. Everytime we see a Volkeswagon Beetle, the first one who calls out “punchbuggy ____________(the color of the beetle) no punch back” gets a point. Technically you are supposed to punch the person on the arm, but we don’t do that with our kids.
As far as the horcrux discussion goes- good thoughts both Doasis and Greg in T (sorry Greg, you are always going to have to have that little suffix after your name…)- as far as teh wand goes. It might have been ravenclaw’s but I also think that the DE kidnapped Olivander not just because of that wand, but more so that they have him on their side. He is the best wandmaker- why wouldn’t the bad guys want him working for them? Also, they might have him working on a new/powerful wand for Voldemort since his and Harry’s wands cancel eachother out.
Sandusky, huh. Isn’t that where “Tommy Boy” took place? Greg?
Welcome Back, Spenser. Let’s not encourage the Greg/Hermione thing. It just disturbs me.:)
Same to you, Paige
March 24th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
I need to get some coffee………..
March 25th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Wow it got quiet…….too quiet…….. did everybody go listen to George Nory?…….
March 25th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Penny, to work your words against you- “It would make sense that the Slytherins would be happy to help her especially when the majority of the people she was punishing were Gryffindors.”
The converse would also be true that Umbridge is happy to employ Slytherins because she wants to punish Gryffindors. In Order, when McGonicall returns, she adds points to G house because of the battle at M/M. She also rewards Ravenclaw for Luna’s participation. Correct me if I’m wrong but they had no points at that point either. (this is a safe bet for me- you hate Order.) If that’s true then one can’t say she just wanted to punish G house but almost all the houses. It was also mentioned that Hufflepuff had little or no points either. I don’t think she wanted to give her squad deduction power if she wasn’t ok with only Slytherins having house points.
HP lexicon’s unofficial motto is ‘cannon above all.’ They make no guesses, no assumptions; they take the books and JKROWLING.com information above all other sources. As a matter of predicting things unknown-prognosticating- i would think arguing the merits of Umbridges’ house would be a subject your site wouldn’t shy away from.
So let me put the evidence:
1) She sent the dementors against Harry confessing that SHE had the onions to act- everybody else SAID they wanted to expell Potter but SHE ACTED. Her willingness to take ambitions one step further is a compelling argument.
2) G house is Slytherin’s biggest rivial in Quiddich so when the opportunity to ban Potter, George, and Fred, arises its too much to turn down. If she is just M/M first and foremost then why ban Fred who had been restrained by the chasers three. But if she is a Slytherin she has to ban all three to better position S house over their great rivals. Also Slytherin’s Quiddich team had been reinstated the same day all activities were banned, but the others, particularly G house, took some time.
3) When She wanted Harry to tell her what he knew of Sirius she resorted to Veratiserum and, when that didn’t work, Cruciatis – justifying a desparate measure for a desparate need. Does that sound like Hufflepuff thinking to you?
4) When trying to blow up WWW fireworks only to learn that amplyifies their sound, she comments to Filch not to do that- implying as it was written- that Filch the squib recomended it. who differs responsibilty when the opportunity arises?
5) When Hermoine was feeding her the “weapon in the forest” red herring, she didn’t want Malfoy to follow her thinking he might procure the weapon for himself. This might be a strech, but not a great stretch, to say the same thought crossed her mind- to use the weapon for her ends, then saying she wants to see this weapon. If she just wanted to turn the weapon over to the M/M, knowing about it would be enough, but deploying the weapon would need her to inspect it.
6) Oh know she didn’t! She calls the centaurs mixed breeds. She calls Hagrid a dangerous half-breed. She passes laws impeding werewolves from employment. These are biases of purity, she might not be as extreme in regards to muggleblood- we can’t say, but there is deffinitely an “speciesist” attitude in her thinking. Ron deffends house elfs but he doesn’t insult centaurs and Hagrid- I just don’t think Umbriges’ speciesm as a trait common amongst non-Slytherins.
In conclusion I just think that if one had to place Umbridge in a house when she was a student, the evidence of how she acts as an adult is compelling that she was a Slytherin and carries that favortism forward. Yes, this isn’t a lock- Percy doesn’t fit G house as much as his siblings yet he is a Griffindor. Houses are about choice- Harry and Hermoine where given choices (Griffindor versus Slytherin/ Ravenclaw respectively). Others like Ron and Malfoy had decided that choice before wearing the sorting hat. None the less you have my arguments I leave you to your own measure.
March 25th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
ON HORCRUXES
I am not convinced that Olivander was kidnapped I think he just fled. He wouldn’t want to be strong armed into working for V and i think he would go into hidding than have anymore of his wands be used for evil. Yes V would want him but he wouldn’t want to be recruited or killed- just like Slughorn.
Nagini:
Sorry Gregg I would rather error for aggreeing with D than error by disaggreeing. Secondly, Harry and Vodemort’s connection was able to include Nagini when he was attacking Arthur. Seeing what a snake sees is a step up for a normal parselmouth, in my veiw, but the legilimancy connection coupled with horcruxness is more credible to my mind. Lastly, Nagini’s vemon is severly deadly to Arthur- perhaps cursive- but is restoritive to V. If Nagini is a horcrux and contains V’s soul this makes more sense TO ME than not.
Having reasserted my argument i would like shoot down a Gryffindor connection. This being the final book introducing a new character or relic this significant seems like a stretch while revisiting a readily forgotten detail from a previous book- like Olivander’s display wand- makes perfect sense to me. I’m not saying nor implying anyone is wrong. Reintroducing something previously-the snake- is more impactive than introducing something new- that’s all. Also Gryffindor holds courage as a defining trait is not to be overlooked. Vodemort attack a newborn!! What greater act of cowardice is there than that: kicking a kneasle? Not even close! I think V’s yellow belly disqualifies him from obtaining a legit relic of G. Not my most compelling reason but I think it is an important footnote.
Little credence is given to Forescue at this point and i am not surprised. it is a stretch but what other reason might he have for closing up and leaving is there? Madam Malkin is still making money, Florish and Blotts too. The twins Weasley are making a killing and not just because of shield apparell. Fortescue is so engaging to people, speciffically Harry in Prisoner, I feel that that charisma would have translated back in the day when Tom was working for B&B. They became chumy and Tom rewarded him with the cup. Fast forward V had to learn of the fate of the diary and i think that, above all, that is why Draco was tapped. Everybody failed at the M/M but Lucius did him one further disgrace. Once learning this I think V had a lackey approach Fortesque and “casually” inquire about the cup to learn if it is still safe. IF this has happened that would be a cue to vamoose like little else.
I learned of Proggs only recently- In February, so i am glad that my contributions are having an impact. I am taking credit for the Olivander display wand possibility until i know it came from someone prior. Fortescue- nobody but me has that and nobody probably wants it!
TTFN
March 25th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Sorry its Greg in Toronto not Gregg.
Are you offended if your are called a “Canuck”?
I’m asking because I don’t when called a Pennsyltucky, from Pennsylvannia. We are Pennsyltuckies.
March 25th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
I’m really confused right now lol.
March 26th, 2007 at 1:36 am
Hey doasis, y’all talks funny up thar in Pennsytucky. Your points about Umbridge are extemely well thought out and I find myself agreeing with all you say wholeheartedly. There is however that unpredictability in the authors writing style. The Sorting Hat’s message seems to be unity among the houses will be needed to squelch evil. Slytherin has thus far been portrayed as a Death Eater training camp. I wouldn’t put it out of the realm of possibility that Umbridge could be used to show that not all bad comes from slytherin house. She is a delightfully nasty villian that will be hated by the readers even more than Voldemort because her traits and actions can be applied more easily to people we have met and know in our own lives. We can relate to her type of badness. Making her a Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw might just be a point maker. If the question of her house is never answered then as I said earlier your evidence is incontravetable. (luv that word).
Your post on Horsey Cruxes is outstanding. I have listened to lots of podcast and read many blogs looking forsomeone to break it down that way. Seems they start with that intent but get off track. Glad to see a well structured blog on that subject. Keep up the good stuff. Aaron
P.S. I just can’t think that hard on structuring a reply to a blog, but I surely appreciate that you can. (That is mean’t to be a compliment)
March 26th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
doasis- and on the same note, we are proud to be Baltimorons.
I feel bad because you put so much effort into the Umbridge argument and honestly- I agree with you. I personally don’t hold a strong opinion either way as to what house Umbridge belonged to (and like you noted, I didn’t like OoTP so I have only read it 3 times and most arguments from that book will be over my head anyway) and alll of your proofs worked for me. I wish I had energy to refuge you just for the sake of good conversation, but you were quite comprehensive in your research. Well done. I don’t know if your argument proves a point about all Slytherins being evil but I get up really early on Mondays and right about now is the time that I am falling over my desk with exhaustion- so you might just have to explain it to me with. very. little. words.
As far as the horcrux thing goes. While I agree that Olivander MAY hav fled in order to avoid forced into working for the DE, we just don’t know. We may never know. Then again, for all we know, Olivander was never really a good guy (maybe not a bad guy either)- maybe he went with the DE willingly because they made him an offer he couldn’t refuse. Who knows. Perhaps HP anda the DH will answer that. Perhaps not.
As far as Fortescue goes, Here is my theory and I will stand by it. Just because the DE are bad, doesn’t mean they don’t have sweet tooths (or teeth- whatever, I’m tired!). Who wouldn’t want good old Florean on their side? It is obvious to me that the DE kidnapped Fortescue and are holding him at their headquarters to make icecream for them at their every whim. I definitely see Bellatrix as a Rocky Road kind of gal and I think it is obvious that Voldy would like mint-chocolate chip, no? I think that is perhaps the most plausible prognostication that has ever come out of my mouth. Don’t you?
I do appreciate all of your contributions- keep them coming. I will admit, I have heard/read the wand theory before but that just gives you more credibility:)
I agree with aaron on his points to you (Aaron- using the big words now, by the way?!?)
March 26th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Penny you know darn well anything ove 3 syllables I misspell on purpose.
That is truely incontravertable.
March 26th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Quick side point, Dee read your reply and now I gotta go get her a milkshake.
March 26th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Don’t worry, me too. If I had a nickel for all of the words I have misspelled in the comments section of this stupid blog/website- I’d have a lot, a lot of nickels.
March 26th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Why?!?
March 26th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Well all your references to what flavor ice crem the deatheaters would choose got her going. It actually is not a bad progastronation.
March 26th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
I like that progastronation. Very punny.
March 26th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
Just wanted to let you guys know how much I enjoy listening. You’ve proven to me that when I get married, I should not settle for anyone less nerdy than I am.
March 27th, 2007 at 12:10 am
That was very poetic, Courtney!
and hilariously funny! ^^
March 27th, 2007 at 7:30 am
Good for you, Courtney! Nerds of the world, unite! (and that includes all of our faithful listeners!)
March 27th, 2007 at 8:18 am
Ah hem, hem, Nerds? We are the dreamers………. The computer geeks…. The mothers………. Children……… the future,,,,, the fans…. the prognosticators. If nerd stands for never ending random Dumbeldore supportor, then maybe.
March 27th, 2007 at 11:36 am
The slytherins do have a bad rep. but that doesnt mean all have to be bad. like harry was almost sent to slytherin. But most slytherin kids have most people in their family as death eaters. We know all of the big bad wizads came from slytherin but look at severus. he didnt he got put into griffindor. I also think that voldemort did take snape with him to the goddricks hollows 1snape wanted lilly. 2 he wanted to kill james 3 if snape was to be wrong he was going to kill him. because voldemort knows good and well that not all of his people are with him. that some are even plotting against him. but he will take snape to see if he was wrong. that is my thery and theries on harry potter
March 27th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
“EVIL” is such a tenuous adjective. In the real world has Iran and NKorea acted “better” since Bush called them the “axis of Evil”. No and its because the accusation put them on the defensive and backed them into a corner. This is also true in Potter’s world. Thinking Snape’s evil thoughout SStone never got the team closer to the real culprit. Thinking Draco is behind the Chamber reopening never gave them the answer of who did open it.
Calling the Slytherin house a dark arts fininshing school and everybody in it evil, arouses the same problem: it puts Slughorn on a bad foot defending the “virture” of their ambitions, and the students like Blaise Zabini in an awful position being the target of scorn, and fear, and- ultimately- prejudice.
No I don’t think all Slytherins are bad, nor that all Gryffindors are good (Percy is a letch), nor are all Hufflepuff’s loyal and industrious (Zacharias Smith is a tool- he should be called “Stanley”).
The folly of painting people with such broad brush strokes could be a theme in this series; not just are there the two I mentioned but also, in Prisoner, Did anybody think Lupin would hurt a fly, or Scabbers be a DE? In Goblet, did anybody think Moody wasn’t Moody? Or that he was just deploying brutal tactics to prepare the students, when he was really getting his rocks off torturing kids? Prior to Order, we tought the Ministry was vigilent but fair, was that descision premature? How about thinking that Skeeter was incapable of doing anything out of heart? Did anybody think the likes of Luna or Neville would be good in a fight? They were. Finally in Prince did we suspect Harry would take advice from some book? Did we think the Prince was good or dangerous? Up until sectumsepra I was convinced the potions book was Lily’s and left in Slughorn’s care like James left his cloak with D. Boy was i wrong!
JKRowling is an expert of bait and switch with our expectations so no I can’t say Slythereins are a bad lot. Crab, Goyle, Malfoy are the children of death eaters and are facing terrible decisions. Will they follow their parents or not? Malfoy to some extent already has and is now in great peril. Voldemort will think of nothing of torturing him to remain loyal until Draco dies or captured. Bye the bye, Umbridge isn’t evil just incompetent.
March 27th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Other musings in the blog shere
I never heard Baltimorons, never. I’ll use it eventually.
Aaron said some very complimentary things and i thank ‘him?’ (i hate assuming gender online). I must ask if your agreement is a result of my arguments logos (logic) or pathos (emotion)? (Aristotle would have found the word pathology a contradition of terms.)
Fortescue wasn’t tapped because of Ice cream, Death Eaters prefer cheesecake! Its much more decadent. Lucius likes his plain (he calls it pure), Bellatrix is a sucker for chocolate. V loves rasberry topping. McNair is a bit odd, he likes pumpkin- that’s why he sliced one when he couldn’t execute buckbeak. Avery like Peaches- becasue hes a woss, while strawberry topping is a fave of both Crabbe and Goyle. Ice cream for Death Eaters? Indeed!
March 27th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Aristotle died hiding out in Euboea. His disagreements with Plato and political connections with the Macedonians were his undoing. As with all things from the past there are lessions to be found and yet mankind as a whole refuses to accept them. As a people with many freedoms our minds and philosophies have become wrapped in a type of cocoon that allows us to expand our moralities and concentrate on things that people lacking such freedoms just would never worry about or give a second thought. In most parts of the world it is even looked apon as a weakness. Now If what you were saying is that Evil is a point of view and truth but an interpretation, then in the context of our modern politics you would be right. Looking at the world as a whole I must say that there is no doubt that evil exist and the only real truth comes from a higher power that makes itself known to us daily if we just look listen and feel. As far as the North Koreans, Iranians and all the other umbridges our world let me share an experience. When I was 19 years old I visited a nazi concentration camp from WWII. After 40 years you could still smell death very distinctly. You could feel the hopelessness and despair of so many innocent people. Such a horror could only be viewed as evil. This is the favored politics of the muslim extemist and the umbridges of our time. A carry over when they allied themselves in WWII with the germans. You may think I am harsh in my comparison with umbridge but your description of her views seem to parallel that of the so called master race. I’m sure if given the chance her actions would as well. Now I am not pro war and in my view our politics actually weigh little. The Democrats were with Vietnam and now the Republicans with the current war. My feeling is if a Democrat had been President during 9-11 it would be the Republicans preaching peace and withdraw. Just a matter of timing, that’s all. Yet another weakness in our system that is happily exploited by the Umbridges. Incompetant she is not just self serving and determined to achieve her views. A typical political figure. I usually steer away from such discussion as it intrest me little. As Aristotle said , I have done all that can be expected of one man on this journey.” The strength of our nation lies within each of us. The people not the government are the true power behind our country. Our diversity makes us powerful and our unity makes us invincible. Such is the point being made in the wizarding world of Harry Potter. As I said I am not pro war but neither will I stand by and let such actions against humanity stand, I knew first hand the sacrifices of the Cedricks, Lilys, Srius’s, James and a bunch more. The wails of Cedrick’s father in Goblet of Fire represent much more than one grieving father. I have no problem crushing these umbridges as easily as I would a spider in my daughter’s room and in truth I have more compassion for the spider. Oh yeah I am a guy was wondering about your gender as well. Let me close by saying I fancy myself to be more of a Hagrid type character so I hope I didn’t get to deep. Come on Greg…….. Your the intellectual ! I’m gonna go prognicate a pizza.
March 27th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
Oh yeah one more thing. The daily Quibbler represents the modern news media’s and the Wizading communities readiness to accept written print as truth equally represents our willingness to let the media decide our opinions for us as well. It could well be Harry Potter will be recognized as a great satire of our time just as Animal Farm represented the 1917 revolution in Russia. Ok My head hurts think I’ll surf for swimsuit models.
March 27th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
That’s funny; when I first wrote about book 5, I likened Umbridge to a character in Orwell’s 1984. See The Boy Who Knew Too Much
Also: Truth in History.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:15 am
Wow! I wasn’t trying to make the point that like beauty, evil is in the eye of the beholder. But I was trying to say that calling someone or group evil isn’t an encouraging way to instigate a “favorable” change in behavior.
Making the statement against a crime against humanity is clear enough, I visited Dachau in 1995- it made a graveyard at night during Holloween seem pleasant by comparison. The action of the people of that camp was evil but had you asked every anyone there you would get the same answer, the same answer that came out of Nurrenberg, “I was just following orders from my superiors”. While it is right to take a stand, does being a good soldier and follow orders make you evil?
I think that Slytherin house is in similar circumstances. Voldemort has evil intentions and finds people, the death eaters, who will follow orders within Slytherin house. This makes the death eaters culpable to Volemort’s crimes but taking Slytherin house down because of the death eaters therein is, well, also evil. Its prejudice.
I AM AGAINST WAR. But lets make something clear about peace. It’s the absence of war not the antithesis. Diplomacy, debate, comprimise are not conflict free but nonviolent ways to resolve conflict. I agree with Democritus when he disagreed with Homer- that the end of Strife would spell the demise of humanity. Stopping Nkorea and Iran is like stopping Umbridge in the book. Put them in a position where there own faubles are their undoing. This is exactly whats happening in NKorea where we got them to shut down Nuclear weapon production in favor of fuel oil. Its their own mistake they rely on a particular type of fuel oil to generate electricity- oil they can’t make domestically!. Iran is trickier it seems, and violence may be an intractable conclusion. But that doesn’t make Iran evil. It doesn’t make Iranians evil (most of them want to move to the West so bad- its unimaginable.)
You call out the Muslim extremist but are you aware of how much a minority they are within the global muslim comunity? I’m sure you do and you know that most, way most, of the Muhammedians aren’t our enemies and we should be vigilant against isolating them with brush stoke name-calling like “Axis of Evil”. Lets not forget there is a minoritive faction within the domestic Christian community that want to strip away our rights- take Harry Potter out of libraries. Are we going to say “they’re Christians it’s OK” or are we going to stand up and say “This is NOT Christian and it’s NOT OK”?
I did notice that Order did parallel our times serendipitously. The Quibbler parallels the media, so does the Daily Profit. When the D/P was publishing anti-Harry articles everybody believed them. When the Quibbler published a pro-Harry article everybody believed that. This shows me two things. One that “the People” (the ones you say have all the power) adopt the the most recent view and change to agree with the next new veiw. Environmentalism is really impeded by this. The second is the veiw that if you are not working with the media you must be against “the People”. Harry wasn’t answering his critics in the D/P but when he did in the Quibbler, he got support.
I didn’t mean to insult Aaron with my tongue-in-cheek nonsequitor about gender uncertaintes on the internet. That was not my intentions, nor was that a “come on”.
How can you remain so optimistic about our people having the power not the government, when in any given election year, only about a third of the people who “can” vote do so? What kind of representation of power is that? Supposing a Dem was pres durring 9/11 i feel that Afghanistan would have been invaded but I don’t think Iraq would have. I could be wrong but knowing the intell was nonsense i don’t see the Dems showing the backbone to lie to America like that. They like to lie about more spineless things like infidelity.
TTFN
March 28th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Ha If you haven’t been told not to take me to seriouslly then allow me. I usually come off a 12 hour work day and read this to relax before succuming to exhaustion. Lord knows what I can come up. If there is a valid point made so much the better. I do feel that evil is not in the eye of the beholder but do understand what you are saying. I may like a work of art that you absolutely find non moving. That does not make either of us wrong just different. I do not think my morality or religion will save the world nor do I really care about politics. I don’t like polititions period. Democrat, republican or martian. I do vote even though I feel our choices are just the same flavor with different colors added. I did make a mistake and mean’t to refer to the daily prophet instead of the quibbler. The quibbler represents Rush Limbaugh… Joke Laugh already. I am not offended nor would I ever intentionally mean to insult anyone although I am sure I do put my foot in my mouth from time to most of the time. Doasis as you have left me to my own means aboutyour gender I will assume that you are a female. TTFN seems girlish but who knows. If you are not I am sorry. If you are I don’t remember a come on. Hope I was not misinterpreted either. (unless you are one of those swimsuit models)
I spent a while in the Army so my emotions do run high on that subject.
(both swimwear and the war.) I like your greek talk so let me close by giving you a quote from one of the great philoshers of our time.>>>>> “OUT HERE, DUE PROCESS IS A BULLET!” John Wayne.
March 28th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Oh yeah I am optomistic about people because I am one.
March 29th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
Penny and Greg,
I LOVE your show!!! I found it only one month ago and I’ve been listening to you almost on daily basis. CONGRATS ARE IN ORDER!
Would you mind it if I asked you to do us, international listeners, to do us a favor? (I hope this sounds formal and kind enough for you not to feel offended.) It’s just that maybe you haven’t realized. Please… Please… Please… Don’t make any comments about Lost or 24, or any other series for that matter. I personally stopped listening to the podcast as soon as you mentioned Locke. Locally we’ve only seen the first 4 episodes of season 3. And… it’s happened to me already that I got to learn about Mr Eko’s death in another podcast about “Family Life”
“24″ hasn’t even started yet!
Thank you very, very much for putting together such good shows.
Regards,
Mona, A listener who wants to go on listening to you.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Slytherin is not a bad house. You have to keep in mind that different houses have certain propensities to certain things. Slytherins characterists lead many of its members to the “dark side.” Its like Star Wars in a way. Slytherins are ambitious, crafty, and cunning. None of those qualities in themselves are bad. But some members go to far and b/c the Dark Lord hailed from that house it has a repulation.