Episode #21: A Department of Mysteries
What secrets lie buried deep in the Ministry of Magic’s Department of Mysteries? So far, we’ve caught a brief glimpse of some of the Unspeakable topics under study deep beneath the streets of London, but have been left with more questions than answers? Will we ever get answers to our questions, or not. And if we don’t, is that the point?
In the news:
- Daniel Radcliffe (and I mean all of him) is in Equus.
- Slow news week.
You can listen to the podcast using the player below, or download it directly as an mp3.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:06 am
I don’t have too many ideas on the department…but about Voldemort making a horcrux in Dumbledore’s office i don’t think it would have been that easy to make a horcrux in there in front of Dumbledore. Obviously he did something but I think the horcrux making spell is too complicated to do it in there and also….Do you have to kill a person the same moment ur doing a horcrux?
Oh…that would be funny maybe ill do it!!!! LMAO!!!
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Hey Penny and Greg… great podcast. I had just enough time this morning to download it onto my MP3 player so that I could enjoy it on my way into work. Thanks for all the Canadian shout-outs (Count Floyd of SCTV fame, Alanis, “You Can’t Do that on Television”, and of course the much hallowed Degrassi Junior High). There were some really great insights on this show and it gave me a little more insight into the thematic structuring of Book five, which was a lot more complex than I once thought despite the clumsy plotting in the book. Anyhoo, gotta go… I hope to post my own Department of Mysteries theories as soon as I can think of them… and when I have more time!!! Talk to you all later.
February 22nd, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Another great podcast Penny and Greg. I loved the O.A.R. reference, they are such a great band and whenever they are local I try to get out and see them. About the possibility of Voldemort making a horcrux in Dumbledores office: 1) I don’t think that Voldemort would even try to make one in front of Dumbledore. The one wizzard that Voldemort always feared was Dumbledore so I doubt that he would even try to do something like that in front on him (especially in Dumbledores office on Dumbledore’s homecourt) 2)Such a careless move on Voldemorts part would have been noticed by Dumbledore. 3)If one thing is made clear though out the novels its that when it comes to magic Dumbledore doesn’t miss a thing and as he himself said all magic leaves traces so if Dumbledore didn’t notice the moment Voldemort made the horcrux most likely later he would have when he went to use that particular item.
As for the MoMDoM I’m sure that it will play a role in book 7 and I had long thought that the room of love could be used in defeating Voldemort so we will have to see how that all plays out. After this podcast I definelty need to go back and read OoTP (or atleast the ending) cause I feel like I missed some things or I just forgot them over the last few years.
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Hey, I really enjoy your show. It’s excellent, and quite worth a listen every week! I was scrolling through iTunes one day for Harry Potter Podcasts, as I am in the making of another Harry Potter podcast. I was looking for more of the less popular ones, to see if they could become successful too. I found this one and I listened to the sample, right after I got a subscription and I downloaded all of the episodes to my iPod. I must say, this podcast has been an excellent example of a podcast that was raised from something other than an already immensely popular Harry Potter website. Great Job and keep up the good work!
February 22nd, 2007 at 11:15 pm
Hey guys- I actually wanted to do a follow-up of sorts that links up with Greg’s Deathly Hallows theory which alludes to the protective power that Lily provided for Harry when she sacrificed her life for him. My theory centers around Lily Potter. Rowling said some time ago that something big would be revealed about Lily Potter, first in book 5 and then in book 7. When you think back to where we see Lily (in Book 5), in Snape’s memory, she is the ONLY person who stands up to James to defend Snape, when on the surface she really had no reason to put her neck on the line. This reveals some important things about Lily’s character- she was the only one who stepped up to the plate to simply help another fellow human being, it was not a grand gesture, a very simple one, but she seemed to be the only who was capable of performing this protective act. Even Lupin, who was basically an outcast himself as a werewolf in wizard society could not take that step to stand up for Snape and instead chose to remain uncomfortably unaware of Snape’s suffering.
Interestingly enough, Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP how rare he was for seeing what he did in the mirror in book 1- stated bluntly, it was his ability to love that allowed him to have the clarity to ignore his own well-being and serve the greater good. Even though Lily and Harry’s situation differ in some ways- they both reveal a lot of similarities about their character. I think that Harry may have inherited his ability to love through his mother, or it might be something that they share through the Deathly Hallows link between them- a gift that she bestowed upon him with her death- perhaps indeed the Deathly Hallows is a birthright that Lily passed on to Harry through her sacrifice.
In HBP, Voldemort says something quite fascinating about Dumbledore’s own pursuits: “… but nothing I have seen in the world has supported your famous pronouncements that love is more powerful than my kind of magic, Dumbledore”, to which Dumbledore cleverly replies, ” Perhaps you have been looking in the wrong places…”. It seems to me that Dumbledore has studied this kind of magic for quite some time. There is a lot we do not know about Dumbledore’s past- could he have been an Unspeakable at some point in his career? How is it possible that Dumbledore can know all these secrets when the department itself has been quarantined from the rest of wizard society? Is it possible that the special characteristics he had singled out in Harry might have been the same things he saw in Lily when she was at Hogwarts? I have a theory that Lily might have been Dumbledore’s protege in his pursuits in the healing power of love and perhaps sponsored her career somehow with a job as an Unspeakable learning more about this power because perhaps it is a power that she is already fluent in using herself. Perhaps it was Lily’s studies in the Department of Mysteries that allowed her to be able to bestow the Deathly Hallows upon Harry when it really counted.
To conlude these theories, I want to bring up the the character of Horace Slughorn for a moment to illustrate what it is I am trying to say about the difference between destiny and choice when it comes to Lily Potter. Talent and charm are tools that can easily lead you to fame and fortune- but its your choices that define who you are and your ability to make a difference and change lives. Lily, being head girl and smart as a whip could have easily have landed a cushy job through Slughorn’s contacts and earned fame and fortune… but I suspect that she followed a very different path for a greater meaning in life… I believe that journey definitely took her to the Department of Mysteries.
February 23rd, 2007 at 11:14 am
Tim- Glad to hear there is an O.A.R. lover out there in hpprogs world! Based on your e-mail address, were you at the MSG show in Jan? We were there- good times! I like what you said about Dumbledore being able to recognize magic and being very intuned to it. We definitely saw that in his and Harry’s search for the locket. I think Harry is going to have to sharpen is magical intuition before he begins to look for the final horcruxes- I am interested to see Harry’s magical maturation (as well as his emotional one) in book 7.
Pat- thanks for the compliments! We like to think that we are doing a good job- especially without the backing of a major website (as you alluded to). Good luck with your podcast!
Greg in T: Wow. I really like how you pulled all those aspects of Lily’s character together to support both the Deathly Hallows theory as well as the thought that she was an unspeakable (I especially like the Slughorn part). That was such a thorough analysis (and well written too!). I think Lily was indeed a remarkable character and I hope we learn a lot about her in the future. I like to think that Harry inherited those remarkable traits from her- the ability to love, the selflessness that will be required to defeat voldemort. I am curious to see how James’ cockiness fit in with Lily’s selflessness. I really hope we get some good answers in book 7.
February 23rd, 2007 at 11:19 am
I like the idea that Lily might have been an Unmentionable, er, I mean Unspeakable, and had access to the Love room, wherein she was able to learn the secret of The Deathly Hallows magic by which she was able to defeat Voldemort posthumously.
February 23rd, 2007 at 1:29 pm
I was listening to the podcast this morning and I have to say this to Greg - please stop interrupting your wife during the recording. Not only is it discourteous but it is difficult to concentrate on the podcast itself. I actually spent time thinking “Does this guy do this to his boss and co-workers at work?” rather than listening to what was being said. It wasn’t that the interruptions were isolated - it was constant.
February 23rd, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Lindsey: I work at home for myself. Also, if you could have seen Penny from where I was sitting, she was half asleep (and fully asleep at times) during the podcast.
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Penny I was not at the MSG show in Jan. I really wanted to be there but it was my 7 year anniversary and my wife had made us other plans for that week. Also, I live in NJ and try to stay away from NY as much as possible. I have seen O.A.R. at Asbury Park and at the Tweeter center in Camden. I’m hoping to get to their April 17th show in PA (East Stroudsburg University). I run into other fans of O.A.R. in the strangest places now days. I think it means their fan base is really starting to grow.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Lindsey- don’t worry, I give Greg a “what for” after the episodes when he interrupts me
February 23rd, 2007 at 11:19 pm
I think that the spell to create a horcrux would require more than just quickly whipping out a wand and not saying anything in a flash– since it’s such a dark and powerful thing, wouldn’t you think it would require more than that?
February 24th, 2007 at 8:55 am
I was reading the end of OoTP and came up with an idea. I was wondering if anyone else though it was possible to take a horcrux and throw it into the veiled archway to have it be easily destroyed? Dumbledore said it takes a complex bit of magic to destroy them so maybe this could be an easy fix for Harry. The veil would kill the bit of soul in the horcrux??
February 24th, 2007 at 9:45 am
I love listening to your show. You two mix a great sense of humor and knowledge of HP that it makes me want to hear more. On the 21st show you mentioned the point about Voldy making a Horcrux in the Dumbledore’s memory. I believe that he definitly used a spell, but not of that magnitude, I think Dumbledore would have known if magic that powerfull was used. I believe he actually transfigured something for himself to steal or put a spell on something to spy on Hogwarts (like one of the portraits to send him info in another portrait). I believe that it was said somewhere that the darkest spells cannot be cast non-verbally, but I may be wrong. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to #22.
February 25th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Spenser- I am hoping that JKR will address this in book 7. Right now that is one of the big question marks. Exactly what is the process of making a horcrux? I really hope she answers that question thoroughly. But I agree with you, I don’t think it is a simple matter of doing wandless magic and reciting an incanation under your breath. I mean, it takes splitting your soul in half to do it. You would think that would require a lot of magic.
Tim- I don’t know. We don’t know exactly what the veil is/does. Does whoever (or whatever) falls behind it automatically die or is it an anteroom for some other place where death occurs? If it is a place where death occurs automatically then your thoughts on throwing the horcruxes in there might be good, but at this point, I am just not sure what the veil is. This is also something that I sincerely hope JKR addresses FULLY in book 7.
Patrick- Thanks for kind words and welcome! Good points, I think you are probably correct. Voldemort had to have done something in dumbledore’s office otherwise JKR wouldn’t have called our attention to it. Now the question is, what did he do?!?
February 25th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
I forgot to add in my earlier post– great episode again! I look forward to your all’s podcast every week, and it’s great to always to discuss the material you all presented in the show with Joye Beth– hopefully next week you’ll feel refreshed and not be so tired, so be sure to get some rest! ^^
February 26th, 2007 at 1:44 am
Maybe Tom Riddle cast that curse on the DADA position when Harry saw that little twitch towards the wand?
February 26th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Greg and Penny - First of all, great stuff! Second, to expand on Greg’s deathly hallow (DH) theory: I have been thinking that - assuming that Dumbledore really is dead - perhaps he “performed” (if that’s the correct word) a DH.
As you have mentioned, to perform a DH, one has to CHOOSE to die. Well, by forcing Snape to utter the curse (when Dumbledore said “Severus” before his death, I think he was pleading with Snape to kill him as Dumbledore had previously ordered Snape to do) - Dumbledore thus chose to die.
The question is - who was Dumbledore trying to protect with the DH?
There are several possibilities:
(a) Draco Malfoy - There’s no way that Draco could’ve gone through with the killing, and so Voldemort would have surely killed Draco. By having Snape kill him, Dumbledore was protecting Draco from death.
(b) Snape - If Dumbledore hadn’t forced Snape to kill him, Snape’s cover (assuming that Dumbledore is correct in asserting that Snape is a good guy) would’ve been blown, and Voldemort would have killed Snape.
(c) Harry - This is less clear to me, but it’s possible that in some way we don’t yet understand, Dumbledore saved Harry’s life by dying himself.
(d) All of humanity - Again, this isn’t obvious, but it fits with Greg’s Savior Theory - except that Dumbledore and not Harry is the Great Savior of all Mankind.
What do you think?
February 26th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Angie: Interesting idea, but, wouldn’t the protection be from Snape? Meaning, as Dumbledore was killed by Snape, the protection would be on someone, but it would only be from Snape…perhaps it was like a test run, similar to putting Han Solo in the carbon freezing chamber…
February 26th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Im not sure if this is an old theory but it was something I was wondering… do you think it would be possible for the Sorting Hat to provide information on any relics left behind by the founders? After all, we know from the hat’s song in book 4 that the hat once belonged to Gryffindor and that the founders had put their essenses into the hat so that it could continue to sort students after they died. I can picture Harry heading back to Hogwarts and whipping it on his head to ask it some questions about Hogwarts history… im pretty sure we haven’t heard the last from the Sorting Hat. What do you all think?
February 27th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
The Sorting Hat has not featured prominently in any of our prognostications or podcasts. It always bothers me that we have left him/her/it out.
February 27th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
We can rectify that, Greg. It is OUR podcast, you know…
February 27th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
I would love to hear a podcast from you guys on the Sorting Hat and its role in the Harry Potter books!
February 27th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
I think that’s up next.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Quick DoM question:
Does the Deparment of Mysteries remind anyone else of Dumbledore’s watch? Twelve unlabeled, rotating hands/doors, little planets floating around the edge…
(I’ve got the relevant book quotes & chapter refs at http://queenzigs.livejournal.com/15291.html if anyone wants to look ‘em up.)
February 28th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Interesting observation Maya, well spotted!! I have always thought that there is a lot more we have yet to learn about Dumbledore’s past. He seems to know a lot more about the DoM than he should. Either that or he picked up the watch at the Ministry of Magic giftshop just off the Atrium, lol….
February 28th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Degrassi!!!!!!!!!yay, one of my favorite things next to harry potter,and (cough cough) Daniel Radcliffe
good call maya on the watch thing:)
i was thinking about Fawkes and his importace/symbolism/forshadowing in the books, i would love to hear your ideas
February 28th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Maya- Interesting thought on the watch!!
Sarah- I think fawkes is a great topic but I think it may have to wait at least a few weeks since a different HP podcast just did a Fawkes discussion this week (although thanks to listening to that one I now have a horrible amount of Pokemon/HP connections in my head…) which was pretty comprehensive and I don’t want to do fawkes to death (not really since he is a Phoenix and can’t really die…) so soon after that one. Keep the suggestions coming though!!!
February 28th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
OH MY GOD!!! Please erase pokemons from my mind!!! I too have this enormous amount of Pokemon/HP connections in my head….that are dumb…really!!! And I have an idea…. I’ll leave you a message tomorrow in myspace…its related to the podcast!!!
February 28th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
Gotta catch em All!!!
February 28th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
When will the next podcast be posted guys??
March 1st, 2007 at 2:12 am
Crazy thought with the watch / DoM thing that occured to me after mentioning the possible connection… If Dumbledore used to work at the DoM (it does seem like he was a scientist/researcher at some point in the past), the watch could somehow be a tool for navigating the crazy spinny-room system (since Unspeakables had to have a better way to do that than the kids did). So when Dumbledore was checking his watch at the start of Philosopher’s/Sorcerer’s Stone, he was actually checking Hagrid’s progess in relation to something he had sent him to the DoM to do. Like go get a Time-Turner (since we now know that was where the Ministry stored them), and skip ahead in time with baby Harry, rather than spending the day hiding out while Dumbledore got things under control (hence the famous “missing day”). And since baby Harry skipped ahead about a day in time and has only ever gone back in time for a few hours since then, he won’t technically turn 17 until some time during the first day of August. So in the event that the Dark Lord attacks Harry at Privet Drive “as the seventh month dies,” Harry will still have a few hours of protection left.
Like I said, crazy. This is just the type of weird little theory-spasm I get sometimes.
Oh, and Greg from Toronto: I love the gift shop idea! It reminds me of the way I sometimes picture Harry showing up at what he expects to be the remains of his house in Godric’s Hollow only to find the Harry Potter Museum & Interpretive Center. It would naturally include a gift shop with his picture on all the tacky souvenirs, and be very upsetting to him. But in a way that’s funny to me.
March 8th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Interesting disucssion.
Greg, I really love your interpretation of “Unspeakable”. I always wondered why she chose that term, because the way the word “unspeakable” is usually used is closer to meaning “too horrible to speak of” - but interpreting it your way makes MUCH more sense.
I’m in agreement with Penny about that flick of Riddle’s wand - it wasn’t the creation of a horcrux, but it’s got some significance. And I think that if Harry noticed it, Dumbledore was surely aware of it, and must have decided to pretend not to notice at the time.
November 25th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
I have a couple questions about book 7 and cant seem to find a place to get them answered. Can someone there help?
1. After Remulus Black drank the potion in the cave and Krecher switched the lockets, how did the potion get back in there for Dumbledore to drink later?
2. Why didnt the deatheaters start watching #12 Grimold Place sooner if Harry and company were inside using the name “Voldemort” out loud which was supposed to be bewitched to let them be found if they used it?
I hope you can help. There doesnt seem to be a place to ask such questions elsewhere.
Thanks